Fair Pay to Play Act Signed into Law in CA

B1GTide

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What's more I'm pretty sure Nick Saban will retire if this becomes a reality. He quit pro ball for a reason.
Because he wanted to make a difference in the lives of young men. That does not change here. They already arrive at Alabama with a long since established sense of entitlement. It might change for other schools, but Saban already deals with this every day.
 

uaintn

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California isn't pushing this. Many states are putting forward similar bills, including South Carolina. Yeah, Clemson is in SC. Is football in SC irrelevant?

I don't mind that folks are opposed to this, but slippery slope arguments don't carry any weight. They imagine the worst while ignoring the possibility that change might actually create improvement. They substitute straw men for real debate.
Bear in mind that the bill in South Carolina is being sponsored primarily by two of the biggest plaintiff’s attorneys in the state and would benefit them far more than any student athlete. So far, it has not enjoyed a lot of support. People there understand that an in state league of USCe, Clemson and Citadel is not exactly compelling.

FWIW, I am in favor of significant system reform, starting with the top 64 (or so) serious college football teams leaving the nzaa forever.
 

jashleyren2

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I don't kid myself: college "amateur" athletics hasn't truly existed in some time, at the major men's sports levels. However, this will truly now lift that facade. Rumors of Johnny QB getting paid something under the table are one thing, but verified, known pay for play arrangements will divide programs, and cause too much division on college campuses in athletic departments.

My take is: the guys who have never gotten those big endorsements, the non "skill" players (which is BS anyway), will get that scholarship that they deserve. The guys who are making money as a paid endorser, well, he forgoes the scholarship.

I take great offense at the idea of a young man, and let's be honest, this will be men only until the noise gets loud enough, receiving state funds, tax dollars, for scholarship, AND getting a private income at the same time.

Maybe this is the way it's been done in all professions in the state of California for a long time. But liberal leadership fails here: they don't take regard for the taxpayer. They see that as free money for all. Socialism. And it reeks of it, at it's core, though no one has proposed that as of yet.
 

jashleyren2

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FWIW, I am in favor of significant system reform, starting with the top 64 (or so) serious college football teams leaving the nzaa forever.
This is where we are headed. The NCAA, selfishly, knows that this is the beginning of the end for them. Their largest cash cows, NCAA men's basketball and NCAA football, whom they have ruled over with an iron fist since Day 1, is about to lift the vale on compensation and money changing hands.

California, as usual, is missing the big picture here. That state has plenty of money, and tremendous wealth concentrated at the top of it's tax payers, stands to gain a lot. That kid who is a standout and grew up in Tulsa, OK or Cullman, AL, and is being recruited by the in-state schools, and also by someone like University of Miami (FL) or The University of California (Berkeley), will have to think twice about going to his dream school, because the money in the short term is too great. Big city, big wealth programs will surge. Not saying our school, the University of Alabama won't compete and continue to do well, because Lord knows that Alabama alumni and the school itself has plenty.
 

CajunCrimson

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What happens when the next LeBron or Julio Jones wants to start getting endorsement deals in High School????

Do we think that this won't creep down to the High School level?

Nike will be in every 5*'s house giving them cash in 10th grade.....
 

B1GTide

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What happens when the next LeBron or Julio Jones wants to start getting endorsement deals in High School????

Do we think that this won't creep down to the High School level?

Nike will be in every 5*'s house giving them cash in 10th grade.....
Why shouldn't it? I worked for $3.15 an hour as a 13 year old. I have wanted to earn my entire life. Why should young people not be able to earn?
 

B1GTide

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I take great offense at the idea of a young man, and let's be honest, this will be men only until the noise gets loud enough, receiving state funds, tax dollars, for scholarship, AND getting a private income at the same time.
So only poor people should get scholarships? Never mind the idea of actually earning one - we only give them based on need?
 

81usaf92

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What happens when the next LeBron or Julio Jones wants to start getting endorsement deals in High School????

Do we think that this won't creep down to the High School level?

Nike will be in every 5*'s house giving them cash in 10th grade.....
It already happens. The NCAA is just too inept to regulate it.
 

KrAzY3

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Why shouldn't it? I worked for $3.15 an hour as a 13 year old. I have wanted to earn my entire life. Why should young people not be able to earn?
Who said they shouldn't? Seriously, when have I, ever, one single time opposed the existence of semi-pro leagues, even ones paying 16 year olds or what ever?

Never, not once have I uttered such a thing.

What I am against, is forcing amateur sports to not be amateur anymore. I am against storming the castle, forcing what we have into being something else, against its will. If you want semi-pro what's stopping you from making your own league? Paying them out of your own pocket? There's nothing at all preventing you, do it, go ahead, with my blessing.

But no, we have to hijack amateur sports to this end. Drop an atom bomb on something that begins with little kids playing t-ball, something that has existed as long as sports have, something that virtually all of us poor downtrodden sods have participated in, because no one can muster a semi-pro league that doesn't suck. So yeah, blow it all up, enjoy the destruction because you know, reasons.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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Who said they shouldn't? Seriously, when have I, ever, one single time opposed the existence of semi-pro leagues, even ones paying 16 year olds or what ever?

Never, not once have I uttered such a thing.

What I am against, is forcing amateur sports to not be amateur anymore. I am against storming the castle, forcing what we have into being something else, against its will. If you want semi-pro what's stopping you from making your own league? Paying them out of your own pocket? There's nothing at all preventing you, do it, go ahead, with my blessing.

But no, we have to hijack amateur sports to this end. Drop an atom bomb on something that begins with little kids playing t-ball, something that has existed as long as sports have, something that virtually all of us poor downtrodden sods have participated in, because no one can muster a semi-pro league that doesn't suck. So yeah, blow it all up, enjoy the destruction because you know, reasons.
So, these kids who are basically professional athletes should only get paid if someone rich enough and with enough business mind can create a competitive league that overtakes College football a hundreds of years old establishment. OK.


This isn't a real argument because we all know how hard/unrealistic that is currently. If it was easy to create a semi pro developmental league (without support of the NFL) then it would have been done already.
 

KrAzY3

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So, these kids who are basically professional athletes should only get paid if someone rich enough and with enough business mind can create a competitive league that overtakes College football a hundreds of years old establishment. OK.
Well if you can't beat them destroy them right?

What so many people are missing though, is that if these players have such intrinsic value. If their value didn't largely lie in these institutions, in something that was built well before they existed, their market value would be more than enough to sustain a semi-pro league.
 

jashleyren2

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So only poor people should get scholarships? Never mind the idea of actually earning one - we only give them based on need?
There appears to be an element of that now, with some schools only giving money based on need, or based on athletic ability. That kid that has the perfect test scores will keep getting offers, too, but that's not reaching enough potential students. Therefore, the lower income kids, and the athletes, continue to see increases in college funds, and of course, the wealthy kids don't have to worry with college costs. It's everyone who's average who will continue to pay their own way, and go deep into debt to do it.

I don't see any way to prevent a larger economic issue in the US from getting worse, but back on topic: I disagree with the idea that a kid who is gifted athletically earning a state sponsored and PAID for scholarship AND earning an amount, a high amount most likely, for endorsements.
 

jashleyren2

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This isn't a real argument because we all know how hard/unrealistic that is currently. If it was easy to create a semi pro developmental league (without support of the NFL) then it would have been done already.
And, you have just proven my point. Thank you for doing that. Being a semi-pro athlete isn't NEARLY as lucrative as the top levels of sport for the truly athletically blessed. Therefore, that truly gifted athlete that MUST attend college due to professional NBA and NFL rules is essentially foregoing the ability to make millions right away, because the sport he (and it will always be a HE until the rage builds enough) has chosen doesn't allow him to go straight from high school to the pros. So, we are going to arrange college sports now, officially, as a minor league for the NBA and NFL, because neither of those leagues could build a sustainable, money making model for that.

It's goodbye to college athletics. Yes, the sky is falling, and not just for the NCAA and it's archaic way of doing things. The cost of all of this will fall on fans, ultimately. Get ready for it.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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And, you have just proven my point. Thank you for doing that. Being a semi-pro athlete isn't NEARLY as lucrative as the top levels of sport for the truly athletically blessed. Therefore, that truly gifted athlete that MUST attend college due to professional NBA and NFL rules is essentially foregoing the ability to make millions right away, because the sport he (and it will always be a HE until the rage builds enough) has chosen doesn't allow him to go straight from high school to the pros. So, we are going to arrange college sports now, officially, as a minor league for the NBA and NFL, because neither of those leagues could build a sustainable, money making model for that.

It's goodbye to college athletics. Yes, the sky is falling, and not just for the NCAA and it's archaic way of doing things. The cost of all of this will fall on fans, ultimately. Get ready for it.
Well the NBA has a minor league. but College Football is already basically an NFL Minor League. It just doesn't pay players.

Things will change for sure. But I guess I don't see College Athletics as this pure thing that some here seem to.
 

B1GTide

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Who said they shouldn't? Seriously, when have I, ever, one single time opposed the existence of semi-pro leagues, even ones paying 16 year olds or what ever?
Re-read. That post was in reply to someone else. :conf2:
 

81usaf92

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Well if you can't beat them destroy them right?

What so many people are missing though, is that if these players have such intrinsic value. If their value didn't largely lie in these institutions, in something that was built well before they existed, their market value would be more than enough to sustain a semi-pro league.
Again the NCAA has made deals with the NBA and NFL that have prevented semi pro leagues from acquiring 18 and 19 year olds. What these leagues lack are up and coming talent, and are mostly dealt busts and miss the cut players. MLB on the other hand said “screw you” to the NCAA, and has a successful farm system. That is a big reason to why there isn’t much backlash between baseball and the NCAA.

A lot of the NCAA’s pay for play issues would be solved if they didn’t force athletes to go to college to get to the pros. They have effectively became a semi pro league because of it. So these issues will persist until there are viable alternatives to college athletics.
 

B1GTide

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There appears to be an element of that now, with some schools only giving money based on need, or based on athletic ability. That kid that has the perfect test scores will keep getting offers, too, but that's not reaching enough potential students. Therefore, the lower income kids, and the athletes, continue to see increases in college funds, and of course, the wealthy kids don't have to worry with college costs. It's everyone who's average who will continue to pay their own way, and go deep into debt to do it.

I don't see any way to prevent a larger economic issue in the US from getting worse, but back on topic: I disagree with the idea that a kid who is gifted athletically earning a state sponsored and PAID for scholarship AND earning an amount, a high amount most likely, for endorsements.
I agree with your higher level line of thinking, but don't want to confuse the two issues. Scholarship money can be better leveraged to allow middle class Americans a lower cost education. I just don't see that larger issue in any way connected to this.

Want to stipulate that kids cannot earn while on scholarship? The reality is that most kids on scholarship do work today, because the vast majority of scholarships are not complete. Want to stipulate that kids on FULL scholarship cannot have an income? Does that include help from parents or family?

The reality - athletic scholarships are awarded because they bring value to the school, not just the athlete. The sports attract students, whether they participate or not, and that impacts revenue and profits. Consider the growth in the size of the student body at Alabama since Saban arrived. Remove those scholarships and what you have now does not exist. Those scholarship dollars, and Saban's salary = great investment for the state and the school.
 

Bama 8Ball

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Well the NBA has a minor league. but College Football is already basically an NFL Minor League. It just doesn't pay players.

Things will change for sure. But I guess I don't see College Athletics as this pure thing that some here seem to.
I think this is the crux of the argument for those who are embracing it and those who aren't. There is a bit of maybe nostalgic stubbornness from me, for sure. When I think of college football, I think of homecoming bonfires on the quad, walking along and seeing Cornelius Bennett's cleat prints at Denny Chimes next to all the other great Crimson Tide heroes, and seeing athletes fight their way through biology and micro-economics because, hey, we are all struggling college kids.

And yes there is something pure and special about that home grown kid in the Alabama jersey just dreaming of one day playing for the Crimson Tide, not necessarily because of championships and draft positions, but because daddy, and paw paw hated Tennessee and you knew better than to even mention the cow college. And because Bear Bryant took some poor country boys from one of the poorest, least educated States and went out west and up north and whooped 'em all.

Look, I get it. It is a business. We pay our coaches a ridiculous sum of money and it is fast becoming so that a middle class family of four has to take out a loan to score tickets and spend a weekend in T-Town. But that doesn't mean there won't be inertia from those of us that steadfastly hold tight to those things about college football that we love.

With the transfer portal the way it is currently, college kids could certainly be, as Jalen's dad put it, free agents. Selling their skills to the program that can get them the best endorsement deals, or the program that has the best relationship with the agents. That ain't what I love about college football. Alabama football is about more than Saban, Tua, 5 star recruits, and even national titles. At least to me it is.
 

rgw

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Schools like UAB run ADs and football programs as loss leaders because the cumulative benefit to the institution is greater than the loss created by running a college football program. At least this is the argument made by administrators when it comes to competing in the costly "revenue generating" sports. Televised athletics is an academic recruitment tool. Some are running this "tool" to just get their name out there. Some are running this "tool" to compete at the highest level...to get their name out there even more. At the end of the day the reason football exists at UA and UAB is fundamentally the same though they have different operation levels.
 

rgw

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I think this is the crux of the argument for those who are embracing it and those who aren't. There is a bit of maybe nostalgic stubbornness from me, for sure. When I think of college football, I think of homecoming bonfires on the quad, walking along and seeing Cornelius Bennett's cleat prints at Denny Chimes next to all the other great Crimson Tide heroes, and seeing athletes fight their way through biology and micro-economics because, hey, we are all struggling college kids.

And yes there is something pure and special about that home grown kid in the Alabama jersey just dreaming of one day playing for the Crimson Tide, not necessarily because of championships and draft positions, but because daddy, and paw paw hated Tennessee and you knew better than to even mention the cow college. And because Bear Bryant took some poor country boys from one of the poorest, least educated States and went out west and up north and whooped 'em all.

Look, I get it. It is a business. We pay our coaches a ridiculous sum of money and it is fast becoming so that a middle class family of four has to take out a loan to score tickets and spend a weekend in T-Town. But that doesn't mean there won't be inertia from those of us that steadfastly hold tight to those things about college football that we love.

With the transfer portal the way it is currently, college kids could certainly be, as Jalen's dad put it, free agents. Selling their skills to the program that can get them the best endorsement deals, or the program that has the best relationship with the agents. That ain't what I love about college football. Alabama football is about more than Saban, Tua, 5 star recruits, and even national titles. At least to me it is.
Alabama football will survive even a cataclysmic shift in how amateurism is seen in college athletics. The end result may be an Alabama football program that looks like an FCS team because a real semi-pro option is materialized. Denny Chimes, the quad, a nice stadium will all still be around but it will be hosting a team that would look like a JV squad compared to our current roster. If you love the University and Alabama football then that should be okay so long as that is the reality for everyone else.
 

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