Fair Pay to Play Act Signed into Law in CA

81usaf92 said:

Again the NCAA has made deals with the NBA and NFL that have prevented semi pro leagues from acquiring 18 and 19 year olds.

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I am not aware of that occurring. I'm fine with going straight from high school to the pros for the record, but I am pretty certain that the NCAA did not act in any official capacity regarding the NBA's rules and quite honestly I'm not sure if that would have been allowed. The NBA as far as I was aware was tired of taking in high school kids with bad fundamentals. They have revised the rules though, players if I understand it correctly will be able to go straight to the G-League instead of college for instance. The NFL prefers players who are trained and proven as well, that's not on the NCAA (and I would also say that I do not consider the NCAA to encompass all amateurism, they are an amateur organization not the amateur organization).

The rules of amateurism are pretty cut and dry. You are free to become professional at any point, you simply are no longer an amateur (in that sport, you can still be amateur in other sports, like OKlahoma's QB last year). Heck, I remember when Tiger Woods went pro. He just did it, he was a pro, viola and that was that. I'm fine with that to, and I oppose the SEC rule that says football players can't have baseball contracts.

If that's all this is about, sign me up for letting the handful of people that can, go straight to the pros. All for it. Just don't force amateurism to become professional, that's where I draw the line.

The rules of amateurism are not cut and dry though. The NFL and NBA place eligibility restrictions that force you into participating as an ametuer in collegiate-ran developmental leagues that derive immense revenue from their media carriage rights, ticket sales, clothing, and memorabilia.

CajunCrimson said:

If the NFL started a "minor league" system -- and allowed kids to sign while in high school to play pro ball -- I'd be 100% fine with it.... I really would....

I'd still be a Bama fan for the kids that want to go there, get a degree, and play ball.

There's still a chance to make it to the pros if you get coached up --- but you'd get a degree, represent the University -- and play a game you love.

Heck -- Army, Navy, Air Force sell out games....and those kids don't sniff the Pros --

And, I'd be fine with it......

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Yup:ROCKER: on TideFans.com

B1GTide said:

Those rules have changed many times over the years. It's not like they have been static.

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The rules of amateurism haven't though, not in a meaningful way. You could be referring to the NCAA rules, which have changed (I already drew that distinction), but otherwise being an amateur has remained a pretty consistent concept for a very long time.

It is after all a word in the dictionary, and if I dig up an old dictionary I'm pretty sure I'll find pretty much the same definition. Now, in terms of interpretation of that very simple concept, obviously there's some wiggle room. But, I can tell you this much, a amateur can not be a paid professional in the same field he's also an amateur in. That's a paradox.

CajunCrimson said:

I'd still be a Bama fan for the kids that want to go there, get a degree, and play ball.

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Most people would, that's why they are trying to forcibly change Alabama football rather than provide an alternative.

Ultimately the current arrangement only really screws around 150-250 high school graduates per year but I don't think that injustice/exploitation is fine because it only affects a small number of young men. These 150-250 kids are the ones driving the media coverage. They're the face of their college programs. Many would probably benefit more from being in a full-time professional environment in their skill and playing only against other high level athletes in a developmental league. It could be argued that the ametuer collegiate-based model is bad for getting these kids ready to execute as a pro as quickly as possible so they can "get in, get out" financially speaking before ruining their bodies.

B1GTide said:

Sorry, all that matters here are the NCAA rules of amateurism.

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Not when it comes to what California is doing, no. They are taking a sledgehammer to the very concept of amateurism.

CajunCrimson said:

Then it sounds like there is a case to be made against the NFL and NBA......that they are illegally banning some applicants from participating in their company.....that are of legal age to do so and can fulfill the obligations of the job......

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Ironically California could have as easily made a law saying that all professionals teams in the state had to allow 18 year olds, but for some reason they chose not to (here's a hint, they wanted to destroy the amateur model)...

rgw said:

Alabama football will survive even a cataclysmic shift in how amateurism is seen in college athletics. The end result may be an Alabama football program that looks like an FCS team because a real semi-pro option is materialized. Denny Chimes, the quad, a nice stadium will all still be around but it will be hosting a team that would look like a JV squad compared to our current roster. If you love the University and Alabama football then that should be okay so long as that is the reality for everyone else.

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Agreed. I loved 'Bama just as much through the Perkins, Curry, Dubose, Price, and Shula years as I do now. I am a Tua (or any player) fan because he is the QB for the University of Alabama, not because he can throw the ball really well. I was just as big a fan of Warren Foust and Walter Lewis, and they definitely look like JV compared to Tua.

B1GTide said:

No, they are protecting their populace as they deem fit. State's rights are important, right? The NCAA can now do as they deem fit.

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They don't care about those guys enough to just let them go pro though right? No agenda, just protecting poor innocent college athletes.

C'mon we all know what's going on. They are forcing their ideas on amateur sports, they don't care about alternatives, freedoms or rights. Only forcing things into being the way they want them to be. If you agree with that, you're all for it, because after all people should be forced into going along with one particular way of doing things, there should be no choice. Amateur sports should not be allowed...

B1GTide said:

No, we don't all know that, but you seem convinced enough for us all.

I am interested in seeing how this all plays out before I judge it one way or the other.

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I will reiterate this. I was for stipends, I generally have been here to voice pro-player positions. I'm for semi-pro leagues, I'm for players being able to go pro at 18, I'm not in any way for forcing players into having to play amateur sports! Not in the least.

However, the way the California bill is worded, it basically says those amateur sports have to become professional! That's not me putting words in their mouth, that's words out of their own mouths. It is a declaration that they are turning these amateur athletes into professionals, and that is basically taking the choice away from all the parties. If they'd have chosen a different course of action (that was to the benefit of the athletes) I might have supported it.

"This is a major problem", as Gavin put it when he signed the bill into law..

KrAzY3 said:

I will reiterate this. I was for stipends, I generally have been here to voice pro-player positions. I'm for semi-pro leagues, I'm for players being able to go pro at 18, I'm not in any way for forcing players into having to play amateur sports! Not in the least.

However, the way the California bill is worded, it basically says those amateur sports have to become professional! That's not me putting words in their mouth, that's words out of their own mouths. It is a declaration that they are turning these amateur athletes into professionals, and that is basically taking the choice away from all the parties. If they'd have chosen a different course of action (that was to the benefit of the athletes) I might have supported it.

"This is a major problem", as Gavin put it when he signed the bill into law..

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Again the NCAA has a deal between both the NFL and NBA that prohibits you from going straight out of high school. It was done to make the NCAA more money because they would have all the great high school players. This wasn’t done because of lack of fundamentals this was done because the NCAA lost out of millions because players like Lebron James said “ to hell with your amateur league I’m getting paid”. So now the ncaa has total control over every athlete.

If the NCAA were to walk back that restriction then they would be an amateur league. In its current standing it is not.

It is a mutual arrangement really. The NCAA benefits from the NFL and NBA passing off significant developmental league expenses and risks. I think the age restrictions are arbitrary but I don't know how to attack that from a labor rights perspective.

Starting either next year or the year after that, high school kids can jump straight to the NBA again. So the choice should be either turn pro or play amateur sports..

The more I internalize this, even though I'm from the OLD, Very Old School, this is the Free Market System in action. This is Capitalism. And I'm all in on CAPITALISM. I despise SOCIALISM. Socialism suppresses CREATIVITY, PRODUCTIVITY, and ENTHUSIASM. I've never liked the SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIP of the NCAA! You know, I've never thought of the NCAA as a socialistic system until my eyes were opened just a couple of minutes ago. Hmmmmm. Are all athletes slaves on the NCAA plantation? This could totally bring that to an abrupt END! So, I'm trying to get this OLD School mentality to change with the times. We are no longer in the Medieval period, i.e. Dark Ages, of college athletics. Looks like a Renaissance is beginning. Hmmmmmm?!?!?!??!???!

My recommendation to ATHLETES is get a good, sound education. I highly RECOMMEND getting a degree in Business: Finance/Marketing/Management so that you can maximize your PROFITS.

Now, with that said, could this be the killing of the goose that laid that GOLDEN Egg? I'm not sure that I'll be around long enough to see the results.

Al A Bama said:

You know, I've never thought of the NCAA as a socialistic system until my eyes were opened just a couple of minutes ago. Hmmmmm. Are all athletes slaves on the NCAA plantation?

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And I am pretty sure that you never watch South Park. :biggrin2: