Fair Pay to Play Act Signed into Law in CA

Rama Jama · Oct 10, 2019

Is this really what we want in the future? Do we want an Alabama team that is essentially a is minor league NFL team with the a script "A" on the jersey? This is where this is going to end up if we continue to want to continue increase compensation to the kids who are getting fair compensation now. How many 18 year kids leave high school and get stipends for housing, a chef to cook their food, the best trainers and strength coaches,and a free education. The real value is the free education. Most of players are from out of state. Out of state tuition alone without housing and food is about 12,000 a semester. Not to mention the summer school classes You gotta think at least 30k in tuition alone. By the time everything else is figures in, I am guessing it is going to be about 50,000 to 60,000 a year and this does not include pell grants which most of the players get.

If this becomes a whose likenesses more valuable, how do you police the inherent inequities that will exist between the player who market their Image and the offensive lineman who will likely get little to nothing.. Can you see the Auburn team on a yella fella commercial or is it a select few who get hundreds of thousands if not millions? If we are going to allow this law to IMHO ruin the concept of"amateur" athletes then we may as well stop all pretenses and just affiliate each school with a football team and draft player out of high school We can do away with recruiting altogether. The kids can and will have agents who'll represent them and they will go to the highest bidder. I for one like that the kid has an emotional attachment to the school, not a brand or NFL team.

CajunCrimson · Oct 10, 2019

And yet -- kids line up every year to play college ball..... there is no shortage of kids who want to play.....

And they play knowing that they make no money .......

It's like we're fixing a well working car engine by taking a sledgehammer to the hood..... because we hear a few pings here and there ....

81usaf92 · Oct 10, 2019

Rama Jama said:
The real value is the free education.

Rama Jama said:
.

Well when players are literally majoring in languages that they cant speak 2 words in, then I think education isn't that much of a benefit. Some yes it very much is a benefit, but for others it is just a year annoyance that is preventing them from going straight to the NFL.

davefrat · Oct 10, 2019

One is subject to change (the rule) one is not (injuries).

Sound like you just want to argue.

CajunCrimson · Oct 10, 2019

NationalTitles17 said:
I hear you.

Serious question: Why is the supposed "Amateur" part of this so important to you? Is there some nobility inherent in being "Amateur" that enhances the product on the field? Let's put aside the fact the the sport has not really been "Amateur" in ages, if it ever truly was. It will be the same players, regardless. It will be the same schools. The difference will be the players can use their image and likeness to get paid.

I guess I'm a stickler for the rules. These back and forths that we have all been a part of the same arguments people have had for ages:

People are smoking pot, so we might as well legalize it, so we can control it
People are gambling, so we might as well legalize it, so we can control it
People are paying for sex, so we might as well legalize it, so we can control it

To me, it's all the same argument. We aren't willing to fix it, so just change the rules so it won't be cheating/illegal anymore.

But, if we did fix it -- take the cheating out of the game. Got serious about banning schools, players, and coaches who cheat -- most of this would go away......

Let kids go pro out of HS.....

But, let college kids be students -- and represent..........

I guess I'm "old school" -- but it has nothing to do with nobility (I got the sarcasm) -- it has to do with there being rules....and I haven't been shown why we have to change them that makes sense to me.

So, to me, either create something new -- so they can go and prosper in a professional landscape....

And let College go back to kids wearing a jersey and getting free college. And let's punish those that cheat with punishments to truly discourage it from happening.

davefrat · Oct 10, 2019

BamaDMD said:
Well which distinction are you arguing? A moment ago you were concerned with them getting hurt and not playing professionally. That's what I addressed. Now your changing the narrative because it didn't suite your argument and avoided my statement.

Injuries can’t be controlled...the arbitrary and antiquated rule can.

Is that really so hard to understand or do you just want to argue?

davefrat · Oct 10, 2019

KrAzY3 said:
That's misleading because it's not what is actually happening. Think everyone in the athletic department is making millions? Everyone working for the team in some capacity? In fact, there's a great deal of people supporting the sport that are paid nothing at all, and they don't get stipends either.

That's part of this argument that's a bit misleading. The athletic departments pour pretty much all the revenue back into the program and a lot of the stuff is being done by unpaid people. The band, the cheerleaders, there's waterboys and all of that. This isn't some Fortune 500 company where the shareholders are getting rich off slave labor in some third world country. This doesn't invalidate all complaints or concerns, but just about any of us here would gladly sign up for the deal made available to college athletes if we had the opportunity. It's not a bad gig, let's not pretend it is. I won't pretend it's perfect either.

Not with the California bill, no. It's specifically designed to be impossible to regulate or have any sort of intervention on behalf of the schools or the NCAA. It stands and there's no means to control what's going to happen.

I'm happy to make suggestions outside of that, I have several times before. But the California bill was designed, in the words of their Governor to be a "major problem". That's what it is, that's what they want it to be. The one and only solution is to find a way to make that bill go away.

Saban makes almost $10 million, we have assistants making over a million and others making hundreds of thousands a year...the schools take in millions...the NCAA multitudes of that.

Yes, people are making millions off the labor of the players.

BamaDMD · Oct 10, 2019

davefrat said:
Injuries can’t be controlled...the arbitrary and antiquated rule can.

Is that really so hard to understand or do you just want to argue?

You are right, injuries cannot be controlled. You are the one that made the argument about injuries. I made a statement about that argument so who in fact is arguing?

RollTide_HTTR · Oct 10, 2019

BamaDMD said:
You are right, injuries cannot be controlled. You are the one that made the argument about injuries. I made a statement about that argument so who in fact is arguing?

I think you guys are talking past each other.

I think he is saying that injuries happen and preventing players from making money while they are risking their future, because possible of injuries, is wrong.

BamaDMD · Oct 10, 2019

RollTide_HTTR said:
I think you guys are talking past each other.

I think he is saying that injuries happen and preventing players from making money while they are risking their future, because possible of injuries, is wrong.

Ok, I am going to ask you what I asked him and he wouldn't answer. If it is "wrong" to play players without paying them due to they may sustain injuries and affect their future, then is it wrong to play high school students, for the very same reason, without pay. They being groomed and sought out for their potential as early as 8th grade from schools all over the country.

Con · Oct 10, 2019

BamaDMD said:
Ok, I am going to ask you what I asked him and he wouldn't answer. If it is "wrong" to play players without paying them due to they may sustain injuries and affect their future, then is it wrong to play high school students, for the very same reason, without pay. They being groomed and sought out for their potential as early as 8th grade from schools all over the country.

Man they can barely pay me to coach them much less to pay the players. I basically work for free.

crimsonaudio · Oct 10, 2019

I think some are confusing paying players (salary) vs allowing them to make some money off of their fame. Considering how much money the schools and medaia makes off these guys, allowing those that can command it a slice of the pie is nothing. It's NOT a salary, it's most certainly about being 'fair'.

Without question, the school is the vehicle that allows them the fame they have, but without these guys, especially the stars, schools like Alabama would have a far smaller operating budget.

So ultimately what we're saying is that it's still an amateur sport, but the NCAA will no longer allow EVERYONE but the player to make money off his likeness. Not even sure how that's debatable. Sure, there will be ways that people will try to manipulate the system, just as they do now - but this isn't about removing amateurism from the sport, it's about righting a wrong that's existed for a LONG time.

I mean, think if it this way - you can side with the players or the NCAA - and the NCAA gets it wrong >90% of the time...

DogPatch · Oct 10, 2019

Rama Jama said:
Is this really what we want in the future? Do we want an Alabama team that is essentially a is minor league NFL team with the a script "A" on the jersey? This is where this is going to end up if we continue to want to continue increase compensation to the kids who are getting fair compensation now. How many 18 year kids leave high school and get stipends for housing, a chef to cook their food, the best trainers and strength coaches,and a free education. The real value is the free education. Most of players are from out of state. Out of state tuition alone without housing and food is about 12,000 a semester. Not to mention the summer school classes You gotta think at least 30k in tuition alone. By the time everything else is figures in, I am guessing it is going to be about 50,000 to 60,000 a year and this does not include pell grants which most of the players get.

If this becomes a whose likenesses more valuable, how do you police the inherent inequities that will exist between the player who market their Image and the offensive lineman who will likely get little to nothing.. Can you see the Auburn team on a yella fella commercial or is it a select few who get hundreds of thousands if not millions? If we are going to allow this law to IMHO ruin the concept of"amateur" athletes then we may as well stop all pretenses and just affiliate each school with a football team and draft player out of high school We can do away with recruiting altogether. The kids can and will have agents who'll represent them and they will go to the highest bidder. I for one like that the kid has an emotional attachment to the school, not a brand or NFL team.

There's also the millions in free marketing they receive by being a student athlete.

RollTide_HTTR · Oct 10, 2019

BamaDMD said:
Ok, I am going to ask you what I asked him and he wouldn't answer. If it is "wrong" to play players without paying them due to they may sustain injuries and affect their future, then is it wrong to play high school students, for the very same reason, without pay. They being groomed and sought out for their potential as early as 8th grade from schools all over the country.

HS football isn't comparable to college but yes it would be wrong to stop a high school player from making money from his likeness. Especially if he's 18.

BamaDMD · Oct 10, 2019

crimsonaudio said:
I think some are confusing paying players (salary) vs allowing them to make some money off of their fame. Considering how much money the schools and medaia makes off these guys, allowing those that can command it a slice of the pie is nothing. It's NOT a salary, it's most certainly about being 'fair'.

Without question, the school is the vehicle that allows them the fame they have, but without these guys, especially the stars, schools like Alabama would have a far smaller operating budget.

So ultimately what we're saying is that it's still an amateur sport, but the NCAA will no longer allow EVERYONE but the player to make money off his likeness. Not even sure how that's debatable. Sure, there will be ways that people will try to manipulate the system, just as they do now - but this isn't about removing amateurism from the sport, it's about righting a wrong that's existed for a LONG time.

I mean, think if it this way - you can side with the players or the NCAA - and the NCAA gets it wrong >90% of the time...

RollTide_HTTR said:
HS football isn't comparable to college but yes it would be wrong to stop a high school player from making money from his likeness. Especially if he's 18.

These are valid points and I understand what you're saying, (I agree with you in the basic premisis of it) but I think it will grow into a multi headed monster that goes way out of control. Many thought a few years ago it was insane to pay a head college coach a million dollars, and look where it has gone since. This will blow the doors off that when corporations, agents, media, lawyers, etc start figuring out how to take something as innocent as you state here and turn it into a multi-billion dollar enterprise.

BamaInBham · Oct 10, 2019

crimsonaudio said:
I think some are confusing paying players (salary) vs allowing them to make some money off of their fame. Considering how much money the schools and medaia makes off these guys, allowing those that can command it a slice of the pie is nothing. It's NOT a salary, it's most certainly about being 'fair'.

Without question, the school is the vehicle that allows them the fame they have, but without these guys, especially the stars, schools like Alabama would have a far smaller operating budget.

So ultimately what we're saying is that it's still an amateur sport, but the NCAA will no longer allow EVERYONE but the player to make money off his likeness. Not even sure how that's debatable. Sure, there will be ways that people will try to manipulate the system, just as they do now - but this isn't about removing amateurism from the sport, it's about righting a wrong that's existed for a LONG time.

I mean, think if it this way - you can side with the players or the NCAA - and the NCAA gets it wrong >90% of the time...

I thought that schools had stopped that. If not, why don't they cease from using any specific player's likeness? Would that satisfy most?

davefrat · Oct 10, 2019

BamaDMD said:
Ok, I am going to ask you what I asked him and he wouldn't answer. If it is "wrong" to play players without paying them due to they may sustain injuries and affect their future, then is it wrong to play high school students, for the very same reason, without pay. They being groomed and sought out for their potential as early as 8th grade from schools all over the country.

If a high school player can get paid endorsements then let them get paid.

And I didn’t say it was wrong not to pay them because they might get injured, I’m saying it’s wrong not to allow them to make money in a free market.

Are you happy now?

NationalTitles18 · Oct 10, 2019

CajunCrimson said:
I guess I'm a stickler for the rules. These back and forths that we have all been a part of the same arguments people have had for ages:

People are smoking pot, so we might as well legalize it, so we can control it
People are gambling, so we might as well legalize it, so we can control it
People are paying for sex, so we might as well legalize it, so we can control it

To me, it's all the same argument. We aren't willing to fix it, so just change the rules so it won't be cheating/illegal anymore.

But, if we did fix it -- take the cheating out of the game. Got serious about banning schools, players, and coaches who cheat -- most of this would go away......

Let kids go pro out of HS.....

But, let college kids be students -- and represent..........

I guess I'm "old school" -- but it has nothing to do with nobility (I got the sarcasm) -- it has to do with there being rules....and I haven't been shown why we have to change them that makes sense to me.

So, to me, either create something new -- so they can go and prosper in a professional landscape....

And let College go back to kids wearing a jersey and getting free college. And let's punish those that cheat with punishments to truly discourage it from happening.

Prohibition always works. Using maximum force to enforce prohibition always works better. That's why our society has, for years, been without pot, illegal gambling, and prostitution.

That's all I'll say about those things on the football board. Feel free to hit me up in NS on them.

Why do we want to constrain these athletes in their ability to make money?

I agree with letting kids go pro out of high school.

The nobility bit wasn't sarcasm - it was the origin of the rise of amateurism in sports. Since this is closely related to socioeconomic status I'm not going down that rabbit hole other than to acknowledge it.

CA got this right when he said that some seemed confused in believing that schools would be paying players. That's not the case other than stipends.

I do admit that there are glaring problems with this idea. These problems range from school image to bidding wars. There has to be some sensible regulation and the schools must be able to reject some endorsements based on moral turpitude or inappropriateness. Those things, to me, are not unreasonable.

The bottom line here is that this is coming, ready or not. It has been inevitable for some time. Overall, it is probably a good thing. There are pitfalls and cause for some concern that this is done as well as it can be done. Sticking our head in the sand will not make it go away. A stronger more punitive NCAA is NOT what we should want. We've seen how that works - it doesn't. Cam and AU skated. Bama got nailed for textbooks. One had to vacate wins. The other won the NC. You want more of that? I'll pass.

B1GTide · Oct 10, 2019

CajunCrimson said:
I guess I'm a stickler for the rules.

So when the laws and rules support this, so will you right? Because it is coming.

DogPatch · Oct 10, 2019

I'll still support Bama, but if this gains traction and spread throughout the country, I'll no longer be a college football fan in the general sense.

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