Kirby vs Richt in the first 4 years

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
6E4851AA-02CD-4B87-AE85-A66436C599AE.jpg

I fail to see how Kirby is that much of an improvement over Richt given the fact that Kirby has inherited way better talent than richt and coached in a way more inferior East than richt. I do give the edge in recruiting to Kirby but the results on the field keep repeating.

I have a feeling Mullen is about to put Kirby out of business in a few years when he finally gets his team.
 
Last edited:

CoolBreeze

Hall of Fame
Sep 18, 2002
8,598
7,754
287
57
Hoover
Wow, what a comparison. I think they were both first time head coaches too (Richt as OC at Freeshoes). Kirby is an elite recruiter for sure but he still has a lot to learn about being a head coach. With luck, that will be a long learning curve if you are a Tide fan.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
Wow, what a comparison. I think they were both first time head coaches too (Richt as OC at Freeshoes). Kirby is an elite recruiter for sure but he still has a lot to learn about being a head coach. With luck, that will be a long learning curve if you are a Tide fan.
When failed former coaches records are comparable then you know it is trouble. See Harbaugh vs Hoke first 3 years. At least in Harbaugh’s case, he was playing with Hoke’s players with Urban Meyer and company down the schedule.
 

CraigD

All-American
Aug 8, 2006
2,322
747
137
Columbus, GA
Devil's advocate chiming in on this one. First of all i'd say that Richt wasn't all that bad to begin with. Many UGA fans are still not crazy that the change was made in the first place. Richt was never bad... he unfortunately got caught up in Saban's wake when every team in the conference changed coaches to try and keep up/catch up with Bama and Saban. My point is that just about the only way to show real improvement over Richt is to win a national title - which CKS came within an eyelash of doing.

Don't get me wrong... I don't like Kirby in the least. I think he did Bama and Coach Saban wrong when he left and has tried twisting the knife a few times since... but to say that he hasn't done well or even as good as/better than Richt is a bit of a stretch to me. To me, they're a ticking time bomb. I sure hope his recruiting cools off soon or they will continue to be a potential problem for Bama. I was never really "scared" of Richt, but Kirby does scare me a little - probably because of the talent upgrade he has brought to campus.
 
Last edited:

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
Did richt deserve to be fired ? Yes
Was Kirby the answer? No

Richt after the 2012 season went in later Les Miles and Tuberville mode in that he felt he did enough to do things his way and tell folks to shut up and color. The results weren’t good and change was necessary. The reason they pulled the trigger when they did was because Kirby was the top candidate for the Auburn job twice and many felt Gus was going to continue to regress to the point that the 3rd time was going to be the charm of them getting him, and they couldn’t allow Auburn to become a recruiting power.

There were far better suitors for the job but they chose Kirby
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
36,285
30,901
187
Beautiful Cullman, AL
Did richt deserve to be fired ? Yes
Was Kirby the answer? No

Richt after the 2012 season went in later Les Miles and Tuberville mode in that he felt he did enough to do things his way and tell folks to shut up and color. The results weren’t good and change was necessary. The reason they pulled the trigger when they did was because Kirby was the top candidate for the Auburn job twice and many felt Gus was going to continue to regress to the point that the 3rd time was going to be the charm of them getting him, and they couldn’t allow Auburn to become a recruiting power.

There were far better suitors for the job but they chose Kirby
I had always heard it was because South Carolina began making overtures and when Georgia caught wind of it they felt they had to act rather than see an alum build a power at a divisional rival, which they assumed he would do.

As for Georgia almost winning a title, let's just say they were the beneficiary of the playoff era. The 2003 Georgia team had one hiccup against Florida and finished 13-1 overall. Were it the playoff era, that team likely makes the field. Who knows how well they do against LSU/USC/Oklahoma, but they would have been in the field. They may have been in 2007 as well.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
31,375
187
South Alabama
I had always heard it was because South Carolina began making overtures and when Georgia caught wind of it they felt they had to act rather than see an alum build a power at a divisional rival, which they assumed he would do.

As for Georgia almost winning a title, let's just say they were the beneficiary of the playoff era. The 2003 Georgia team had one hiccup against Florida and finished 13-1 overall. Were it the playoff era, that team likely makes the field. Who knows how well they do against LSU/USC/Oklahoma, but they would have been in the field. They may have been in 2007 as well.
Honestly I think they were the best team in the nation in 2007, and one of the best in 2012 (but we were far better than them, and it was only because of nuss it was a close game)
 

DzynKingRTR

TideFans Legend
Dec 17, 2003
42,230
29,399
287
Vinings, ga., usa
Devil's advocate chiming in on this one. First of all i'd say that Richt wasn't all that bad to begin with. Many UGA fans are still not crazy that the change was made in the first place. Richt was never bad... he unfortunately got caught up in Saban's wake when every team in the conference changed coaches to try and keep up/catch up with Bama and Saban. My point is that just about the only way to show real improvement over Richt is to win a national title - which CKS same within an eyelash of doing.

Don't get me wrong... I don't like Kirby in the least. I think he did Bama and Coach Saban wrong when he left and has tried twisting the knife a few times since... but to say that he hasn't done well or even as good as/better than Richt is a bit of a stretch to me. To me, they're a ticking time bomb. I sure hope his recruiting cools off soon or they will continue to be a potential problem for Bama. I was never really "scared" of Richt, but Kirby does scare me a little - probably because of the talent upgrade he has brought to campus.
Richt would have been coach forever at a school that only cares about bowl games.
 

Probius

Hall of Fame
Mar 19, 2004
6,773
2,175
287
43
Birmingham, Alabama
Richt's and Smart's first 4 years are remarkably similar, but it would make more sense to compare Smart's first 4 seasons to Richt's last 4 seasons. UGA fans weren't upset about how Richt started his career in Athens, they were upset that Richt wasn't doing much toward the end of his career. In the first 5 seasons at UGA, Richt won 2 SEC championships. In 2013 & 2014, UGA fans had to watch Missouri win the east twice in a row, and both years Missouri got blasted in the SECCG. I think that's why UGA fired Richt.
 

seebell

Hall of Fame
Mar 12, 2012
11,919
5,105
187
Gurley, Al
Richt's record at Georgia. From Wikipedia

YearTeamOverallConferenceStandingBowl/playoffsCoaches[SUP]#[/SUP]AP[SUP]°[/SUP]
Georgia Bulldogs (Southeastern Conference) (2001–2015)
2001Georgia8–45–3T–3rd (Eastern)L Music City2522
2002Georgia13–17–11st (Eastern)W Sugar[SUP]†[/SUP]33
2003Georgia11–36–2T–1st (Eastern)W Capital One67
2004Georgia10–26–22nd (Eastern)W Outback67
2005Georgia10–36–21st (Eastern)L Sugar[SUP]†[/SUP]1010
2006Georgia9–44–4T–3rd (Eastern)W Chick-fil-A23
2007Georgia11–26–2T–1st (Eastern)W Sugar[SUP]†[/SUP]32
2008Georgia10–36–22nd (Eastern)W Capital One1013
2009Georgia8–54–4T–2nd (Eastern)W Independence
2010Georgia6–73–5T–3rd (Eastern)L Liberty
2011Georgia10–47–11st (Eastern)L Outback1818
2012Georgia12–27–1T–1st (Eastern)W Capital One45
2013Georgia8–55–33rd (Eastern)L Gator
2014Georgia10–36–22nd (Eastern)W Belk99
2015Georgia9–35–3T–2nd (Eastern)TaxSlayer*25
Georgia:145–5183–37
I think Richt lost his enthusiasm after a while, that's why he bowed out at Miami.
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
29,735
287
54
Richt's and Smart's first 4 years are remarkably similar, but it would make more sense to compare Smart's first 4 seasons to Richt's last 4 seasons. UGA fans weren't upset about how Richt started his career in Athens, they were upset that Richt wasn't doing much toward the end of his career. In the first 5 seasons at UGA, Richt won 2 SEC championships. In 2013 & 2014, UGA fans had to watch Missouri win the east twice in a row, and both years Missouri got blasted in the SECCG. I think that's why UGA fired Richt.

Some points - the latter ones - with which I agree and others with which I disagree.

1) Yes, Richt DID win 2 SEC titles in his first five years.

Why?

Let's see.......who might have retired after 2001 that might have made things easier for Richt.....I think his name was Steve Spurrier.
That's also the year Tennessee began their belly flopping for Fulmer (they'd come within 1/2 of playing Miami for the title in 2001).
Also, South Carolina began their descent from Holtz's recruiting (they were 9-3 in 2001).

So THREE of his opponents weren't what they had been, the other 3 were cupcakes......and he managed to avoid a rematch with an Alabama team that nearly beat him because the Tide were ineligible for the SECCG. He got a mediocre Arkansas team and rolled them.

Even then - he managed to lose to Florida.

In 2003, he again won the West and lost twice to Saban's LSU national champions - so nobody was gonna get mad about that.....but AGAIN he lost to an 8-5 Ron Zook team. In 2004, he blew the East despite being better than the Vols. And in 2005, he won the East and AGAIN he lost to Florida......and then lost to Rich Rod's WVA.


Even in Richt's hours of success, he botched some key moments.

2) Richt never won a damn thing while Spurrier and Meyer were at Florida.

Spurrier leaves in 2001, and Richt wins the SEC in 2002.
Zook is fired in 2004, so I guess "technically" Richt beat out Meyer in 2005.......but most of those were Zook's recruits. The moment Meyer got his sytem in place and his recruits, he snowballed Georgia.

And then the moment Meyer leaves - after the 2010 season - UGA wins the 2011 and 2012 East Division championships.

Richt's success was based almost entirely upon Florida hiring a bad head coach. But there was another contributor....


3) Richt's success coincides with the implosion of Tennessee under Fulmer

The moment Tennessee begins regressing right along with Florida, Richt wins. And it's pretty damn difficult to say Richt deserved a lot of recognition even for that given that UGA was only 4-3 against a sliding Vols team under Fulmer from 2002-2008. And TWO of those four wins game when UGA had an extra week to prepare. Losses to the Vols cost UGA SEC title shots in both 2004 and 2007, and the latter probably cost them a shot at the national title.

4) Richt wasn't even very good against Spurrier when the OBC was at South Carolina

I mean, have you looked at the actual record? If you cut out the last year when Spurrier suddenly quit on a moment's notice, Richt was 5-5 against Spurrier when OBC was at SOUTH CAROLINA! Not at Florida - at USCe, not even the top program in their own state.

The year that UGA was supposed to be so good and lost that close SEC title game to us.....their other loss was a 35-7 stomping at the hands of Spurrier's Gamecocks. Even most years when Richt won, he was basically lucky. Look at the scores:

2005: 17-15 (against mostly Lou Holtz's leftovers)
2006: 18-0 (okay, a good win for Richt)
2007: 12-16 loss
2008: 14-7 (against a 7-6 USC team)
2009: 41-37 (against another 7-6 team)
2010: 6-17 (a 9-5 Carolina)
2011: 42-45 (granted, a good USC team - but UGA won the East)
2012: 7-35
2013: 41-30
2014: 35-38

I mean, Spurrier sometimes had HALF the talent Richt did, but he won half the meetings.

5) Richt's success at Georgia was not all that different from Jackie Sherrill's success at MSU

From 1997-2000, MSU was one of the best teams in the West, year-in and year-out. Sure, they cheated as it came out when the NCAA nailed them with a hard probation. But it's no accident that Sherrill began winning in the final two games (Alabama and Ole Miss) in 1996 and then did well.

Why?

Well, in 1995, Alabama got socked with a hard probation.....and so did Ole Miss. And LSU was recovering from Curley Hallman and dealing with Gerry DiNardo. In fact, every single team in the SEC West changed coaches at least once from 1994-98 EXCEPT Mississippi State.
If you add 1999 and 2000, every team in the West but Arky and MSU changed coaches AT LEAST TWICE from 94-2000.

In 1997, MSU was sitting at 7-2 and leading the SEC West - and imploded, losing to 4-7 Arky and a stunner to Ole Miss, 15-14.

In 1998, they were humming along and then got hot.....they drilled us, they edged first-place Arky, and then Tommy Tuberville made his pine box comment, and they beat Ole Miss and won the West.

In 1999, they drew Kentucky, USCe, and Vandy from the East (combined record: 11-23) and led until we beat them in November. But they still beat Ole Miss and that was the year Wingnut blew a 16-3 lead in the final 3 minutes.

In 2000, they were unlucky in the SCAR loss (Phil Pepe converted a fourth down to help Holtz win), and they still beat us.


But Sherrill's "success" as it were was due mostly to crippling sanctions at Alabama and Ole Miss, horrific coaching choices in Baton Rouge and Auburn, and a lack of stability at every other program in the division. Sherrill was a pretty good coach, and he does deserve credit for capitalizing on the situation - but the fact remains that once the other programs got their acts together, Sherrill went 3-21 in the SEC in his last three years and managed to lose to two different Alabama coaches and go 1-2 against Ole Miss.

Richt was very similar in that he could run up huge numbers of wins (a la Tom Osborne).

Here's his rest of SEC record:

Auburn 10-5 (3 of those 5 were the 2004 SEC champs, the 2010 national, and the Prayer at Jordan Hare)
Arky - 6-1
UK - 13-2
Ole Miss 7-0
MSU 3-1
Mizzou 3-1
SCAR - 9-6
ATM - never played
Vols - 10-5

Record vs Rest of SEC: 61-21 (.744)


THE GOOD TEAMS
vs Alabama 3-3 (won 2 games with us on probation and Saban's first year; lost the other 3 in a row)
vs LSU 3-5 (lost 2 SEC title games)
vs Florida 5-10 (3 of those against Muschamp)

Record vs "good teams": 11-18 (.379)

Out of Conference Record (excluding bowl games): 51-6 (.895)
Record vs Ga Tech: 13-2 (9 of those had winning records)
Bowl games: 9-5


Look, Mark Richt was an above average coach - better than, say, Malzahn - maybe a low Tier B coach ranking him all-time. Yes, he deserves recognition for being successful - after all, many a coach has had similar fortuitous circumstances and blown the opportunity. Richt did about as well as he could have under the circumstances. And most years his teams play decent OOC schedules as well. Yes, they had the usual SEC bakery serving, but many times he faced Clemson or Boise St when everyone was clamoring for it.

But his success was due - in large part - to circumstance and timing.
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
36,285
30,901
187
Beautiful Cullman, AL
I think the theme we are establishing here is that Georgia is not really an elite program after all.

They are a wannabe sitting on a hotbed of talent. So the stars are always on the roster, but the ability to close the deal on the field is simply lacking. Oh what if they could hire a Nick Saban you say? Well that is the point. They can't.
 

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.