Question: How do you defend modern offenses

bigjue24

Suspended
Dec 2, 2009
984
179
62
Okeechobee, FL
To a degree, yes, but without elite athletes most can't exploit the weaknesses. It also helps when the defense is run with experienced elite athletes. Experience is lacking now and the athleticism is slightly lower in some positions than we'd like.
Let's say you are correct about the coaches with elite athletes being able to exploit the defense, and I think you may be right. The sample size is getting too large to ignore. You aren't going to have elite experienced athletes at every position. Other schools are recruiting too and people leave early for the NFL. Wouldn't a shift in philosophy to try and come at the offenses differently be in order?
 

Saban4Ever

All-American
Sep 27, 2016
3,768
2,913
187
Cobb County GA
Defend modern offenses with experienced coaches/players on defense, avoid major injuries (especially at same position) and try to get the juniors to stay their senior year while also recruiting the right guys to take their spot when they do leave. :)

Really, I don't know all the x's and o's and details, but it is hard to defend the modern offenses, especially with the way the referees and penalties are (basically supporting the offenses). I just hope our defense gets better over the next few games and that we have more depth and less injuries from now on.
 

92teamownsall

Scout Team
Sep 10, 2013
114
17
37
Let's say you are correct about the coaches with elite athletes being able to exploit the defense, and I think you may be right. The sample size is getting too large to ignore. You aren't going to have elite experienced athletes at every position. Other schools are recruiting too and people leave early for the NFL. Wouldn't a shift in philosophy to try and come at the offenses differently be in order?
It seems its due for a change the same way he changed the offense. I'm no X's and O's guy just armchair coaching :)
 

bigjue24

Suspended
Dec 2, 2009
984
179
62
Okeechobee, FL
I suppose a case could be made that Hugh Freeze figured it out a few years ago.
That was one I was thinking as well. Ole Miss put up some great numbers against Bama. They did win one of the games with a ridiculous amount of turnovers, but they turned those into points, and gained alot of yards.
 

NationalTitles18

TideFans Legend
May 25, 2003
29,636
34,737
362
Mountainous Northern California
Let's say you are correct about the coaches with elite athletes being able to exploit the defense, and I think you may be right. The sample size is getting too large to ignore. You aren't going to have elite experienced athletes at every position. Other schools are recruiting too and people leave early for the NFL. Wouldn't a shift in philosophy to try and come at the offenses differently be in order?
We can go back to 2012 to see when Saban began shifting to speedier if slightly less bulky LB's and even on the DL. It seems we got away from that just a bit and it's biting us now.

Do I think a shift is needed? Yes, I do to a degree.

It would be great to have some different packages but with the substitution rules as they are now that is not going to happen in the game.

Fundamentally there is not much wrong with the defense Saban runs, though it does have vulnerable points. That said, with modern offenses and especially with modern QB's able to exploit those weakness with elite athletes around them it is my opinion (and has been going back to at least 2016) that the defense has to either change to something more simple or be more multiple with both schemes and personnel. The problem with being more multiple, again, is the substitution rules. However, since if the O substitutes then the D can also that may help with the platooning needed for such a multiple defense. I understand we do run multiple variations in this scheme and don't mean to imply we don't.

We also have to get rid of the substitution mistakes. I'm not sure who that's on but that has to be corrected. As someone said earlier, managing minutes played is something that may need to be looked at, even if it means not always having our best on the field. There are ways to mitigate the damage that would cause, but it would cause damage. More damage than everyone getting completely worn out? I don't know.
 

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
5,347
4,419
187
51
I think Deshaun Watson ruined our defense
Agree completely. 2015, even though we won, and 2016, caused Saban to change his philosophy because he saw difficult he was to defend. In the process though we gave up our ability to control the run and ToP. We need to get that back. It starts with recruiting and less coaching scheme.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

bigjue24

Suspended
Dec 2, 2009
984
179
62
Okeechobee, FL
Agree completely. 2015, even though we won, and 2016, caused Saban to change his philosophy because he saw difficult he was to defend. In the process though we gave up our ability to control the run and ToP. We need to get that back. It starts with recruiting and less coaching scheme.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
Is it really unavoidable that your defense becomes compromised if you have a high powered offense? OSU this year and Clemson last year seem to show that it doesn't have to be that way. If your defense is really a good defense they can get off the field on third down after two to three opportunities no matter what scheme your offense runs. I think this can be accomplished with a mix of scheme and the right talent. That is hard to always get so the scheme has to adapt to maximize your talent. This is done constantly on the offensive side of the ball, but why isn't it done more on the defensive side of the ball? I may not be smart enough to understand why it's not possible, or it may just not be possible.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,502
46,845
187
Is it really unavoidable that your defense becomes compromised if you have a high powered offense? OSU this year and Clemson last year seem to show that it doesn't have to be that way. If your defense is really a good defense they can get off the field on third down after two to three opportunities no matter what scheme your offense runs. I think this can be accomplished with a mix of scheme and the right talent. That is hard to always get so the scheme has to adapt to maximize your talent. This is done constantly on the offensive side of the ball, but why isn't it done more on the defensive side of the ball? I may not be smart enough to understand why it's not possible, or it may just not be possible.
To be fair, Ohio State has not faced an offense even close to that of LSU or Alabama this year. Not even close.
 

Krymsonman

Hall of Fame
Sep 1, 2009
5,491
3,225
187
River Ridge, LA
Is it really unavoidable that your defense becomes compromised if you have a high powered offense? OSU this year and Clemson last year seem to show that it doesn't have to be that way. If your defense is really a good defense they can get off the field on third down after two to three opportunities no matter what scheme your offense runs. I think this can be accomplished with a mix of scheme and the right talent. That is hard to always get so the scheme has to adapt to maximize your talent. This is done constantly on the offensive side of the ball, but why isn't it done more on the defensive side of the ball? I may not be smart enough to understand why it's not possible, or it may just not be possible.
I think the key thing that has allowed OSU this year, and Clemson last year, was that they both have/had D-linemen that were/are disrupters, and are able to get in the backfield pretty quick. When you can get the opposing QB off his mark you can obviously be more successful on defense. Most of the times when we were able to get pressure on Burrow we were successful. He did pull off a couple of "miracle" type plays, but elite QB's do that. We are just too thin/young on defense due to injuries to match up to what OSU has and Clemson had last year. Hopefully help will be coming in with recruiting. Last night, both defenses were thin going into the game, and by the time the 4th quarter rolled around, both defenses were out of gas. I'm ranting, but in a nutshell, our first half mistakes dug us too deep of a hole for a thin defense.
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
8,982
3,421
187
Gadsden, Al.
I don't know if the Saban 3-4 scheme has run it's course and needs adjustment or overhaul. To answer that question I'd need better knowledge of what other teams are running. Defense is not impossible, Nobody is scoring much on Auburn and they are going to miss the playoffs because of Gus's offense that only works with certain types of quarterbacks and a nearly indestructible RB.

The big difference that I do see between now and not only the past, but Auburn is tackling. We are pathetic at it. We penetrate the backfield and don't get the guy down, we caught LSU players short of the first down all night long only to watch their guy drag through 1, 2, or even more of our players to get the first down. In championship seasons we were not always perfect but when our guy got to you, you went to the ground. You don't need to be a five star guy to tackle. Levi Wallace could tackle better than ANY player on this Defense and he was a zero star walk on.

Tackling is mostly desire and just being a violent nasty player. So our coaches suck, or they have recruited the wrong type of players.
A lot of truth to that...
 

scrybe

3rd Team
Sep 6, 2019
240
137
67
With the current officiating situation. There is no way.

Everytime there are two elite teams playing the score is going to be in the 30s

With that said. The best way is with a ball control offense. Slow the game down in the first half. Wear their defense out. Then crush them in the second half

That would have worked last night if not for the freebie TD and lost fumble. If Tua scores there, we win. That flipped the entire game
I was pulling for the Tide and I'm sorry they lost.

But Bama lost the game not because of some official's call. Bama lost because LSU and Burrow were better – on that night – than Bama and Tua. I hope the Tide gets another shot at the Tigers.

If I've learned nothing else in my decades of following college football, I've learned there's more honor in accepting a loss than in playing the "what if" game.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,502
46,845
187
I was pulling for the Tide and I'm sorry they lost.

But Bama lost the game not because of some official's call. Bama lost because LSU and Burrow were better – on that night – than Bama and Tua. I hope the Tide gets another shot at the Tigers.

If I've learned nothing else in my decades of following college football, I've learned there's more honor in accepting a loss than in playing the "what if" game.
You really should just shut up.
 

BamaInBham

All-American
Feb 14, 2007
4,465
2,110
187
I was pulling for the Tide and I'm sorry they lost.

But Bama lost the game not because of some official's call. Bama lost because LSU and Burrow were better – on that night – than Bama and Tua. I hope the Tide gets another shot at the Tigers.

If I've learned nothing else in my decades of following college football, I've learned there's more honor in accepting a loss than in playing the "what if" game.
You have little understanding of msg board etiquette. An outsider rarely has the cred to upbraid a home poster about how to act - IMO, you are not the exception. It's not like the whole or even majority of the fan base is whining that the loss was because of officiating. If you've read the board it is the opposite. Uninformed and immature criticisms of the coaching staff and a little of the players has been the preposterous flavor of the day. Not many playing the "we wuz robbed" game. Criticism of some calls is certainly justified though. Many msg boards would have scalded you and sent you packing. Here you just have to bear a little "correction" - primarily a function of the understanding mods.
 

Ole Man Dan

Hall of Fame
Apr 21, 2008
8,982
3,421
187
Gadsden, Al.
The best way to defend against modern Offenses is to not make any mistakes. Not have Penalties.

Problem is those are unreal expectations.

If our Offense makes 1st downs on 3rd down plays.
If our Defense holds the other teams to 3 and out...

These ideas work if we execute our game plans.

Truth is our Offense and Defense both work, if we execute.
I do think there are parts of our Offense and Defense that could be Tweaked for better results.

MORE...
I could also add...
If our QB isn't rusty.
If our QB takes what's there, and doesn't try to force the ball.
If our Running Backs hit the hole running as hard as they can.
If our Running Backs refuse to go down.
If our WR don't give up on a play...
If our Receivers will fight for the ball...
If someone will take the Magnets off the Goal Post, maybe a few more kicks miss the uprights.

Lastly... If our coaches would sometimes do what
Funny Maine Johnson always suggest... RUN DA BALL... I jest...

The last improvement is to buy the Referees a pair of glasses, and a rule book.

Maybe the last suggestion shouldn't be in Blue Font...
(Lane Kiffin was right)
 
Last edited:

NationalTitles18

TideFans Legend
May 25, 2003
29,636
34,737
362
Mountainous Northern California
I was pulling for the Tide and I'm sorry they lost.

But Bama lost the game not because of some official's call. Bama lost because LSU and Burrow were better – on that night – than Bama and Tua. I hope the Tide gets another shot at the Tigers.

If I've learned nothing else in my decades of following college football, I've learned there's more honor in accepting a loss than in playing the "what if" game.
You have an uncanny ability to magnify a minute thing into all that you can see.

Most here have said that LSU was the better team that day, but Alabama helped them out tremendously with mistakes.

Yes, we did point out that at least one ref either doesn't know the rulebook or has a very active imagination that was costly.

If you take a good look around the board you will see a lot of reflection on what our coaches and players did - the mistakes made, personnel decisions and injuries - basically analyzing the situation top to bottom as fans tend to do when they are generally knowledgeable and passionate. You can't learn and get better by patting the other guy on the back when he beats you. To get better you have to find those things you control that can be done better. The coaches should and will do that. As fans it makes no difference but it sure is more interesting than hanging your head and bowing in praise to the opposition and it helps improve our understanding of the game of football.

Bottom line: No one needs a lecture from you about honor, however short and wrapped in whatever platitudes.
 

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop : 2024 Madness!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.