What is the status of Tua's ankle?

rtr90 said:

defense has been crap in tua's time. qb get too much credit /blame for losses.

Click to expand...

If you view a quarterback as a tool, it's not a matter of questioning the tool so much as how well it is used. I said, before Tua ever started a game that it was dangerous to be over-reliant on quarterback play. Back then I cited stats and the like showing why that's not something you want to do. It has never been a question of if Tua is good enough. It's a matter of putting too much on his shoulders. This does in fact get back to the topic of his ankle, the more he does, the more he's exposed and 90% of the time he simply doesn't have to do as much as he ends up doing.

As far as defense, it's not the best Alabama defenses, but that's in part a result of lack of clock management. When you have 1 minute possessions, you put the defense's back against the wall. Of course they look bad. It's not as bad as some people seem to think though. The 2015 defense, the team that Coker played for gave up over 15 points per game. They gave up over 40 twice. This team gives up 18 points per game. If stressed in the same way, the 2015 defense performed in similar fashion. The 2019 defense has to defend over 4 more plays per game for example.

The 2018 defense actually gave up about the same points as this year's defense, which is 18 PPG. What might have changed though that saw a sudden rise in PPG given up (a full touchdown)? I looked at a lot of those games and I continually saw time of possession issues, and I bought it up back then, even in some big Alabama wins. They were better the previous seasons, when Alabama was less pass oriented. Might it have something to do with a complete change in Alabama's clock management and putting more stress on the defense? Saban has commented on this as a factor, so we know it's part of the problem. Obviously it's not the only factor, but it is irrefutably a factor.

While it's not fair to blame the QB for defensive issues, it's also not fair to blame the defense for problems the offense creates. The issue though is not that the defense is a bit worse. Does anyone here really think Tua isn't good enough to make up a 3 points per game gap over Coker? Obviously he's more than talented enough to do that. The question then is if he's being most effectively used, and in turn is someone like Najee being used most effectively. Is the defense being put in bad positions by short possessions? Could Alabama get more out of the running game and in turn both take pressure off Tua but also take pressure off the defense?

It's one thing to say hey Tua has to do more because the defense isn't as good. Alright. However, this is not only the possible way things could go.

KrAzY3 said:

While it's not fair to blame the QB for defensive issues, it's also not fair to blame the defense for problems the offense creates. The issue though is not that the defense is a bit worse. Does anyone here really think Tua isn't good enough to make up a 3 points per game gap over Coker? Obviously he's more than talented enough to do that. The question then is if he's being most effectively used, and in turn is someone like Najee being used most effectively. Is the defense being put in bad positions by short possessions? Could Alabama get more out of the running game and in turn both take pressure off Tua but also take pressure off the defense?

It's one thing to say hey Tua has to do more because the defense isn't as good. Alright. However, this is not only the possible way things could go.

Click to expand...

You are giving up as many or more points this year, but the offense is not the same. Last year's offense was fast paced and big play or nothing. This year's offense uses the clock and sustains long drives. In other words, you cannot blame this year's defensive struggles on an offense that doesn't hold the ball.

TIDE-HSV said:

It's always the nitpicking after a loss...

Click to expand...

I don’t know I’d be dropping new avatars for some of these posts[emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KrAzY3 said:

If you view a quarterback as a tool, it's not a matter of questioning the tool so much as how well it is used. I said, before Tua ever started a game that it was dangerous to be over-reliant on quarterback play. Back then I cited stats and the like showing why that's not something you want to do. It has never been a question of if Tua is good enough. It's a matter of putting too much on his shoulders. This does in fact get back to the topic of his ankle, the more he does, the more he's exposed and 90% of the time he simply doesn't have to do as much as he ends up doing.

As far as defense, it's not the best Alabama defenses, but that's in part a result of lack of clock management. When you have 1 minute possessions, you put the defense's back against the wall. Of course they look bad. It's not as bad as some people seem to think though. The 2015 defense, the team that Coker played for gave up over 15 points per game. They gave up over 40 twice. This team gives up 18 points per game. If stressed in the same way, the 2015 defense performed in similar fashion. The 2019 defense has to defend over 4 more plays per game for example.

The 2018 defense actually gave up about the same points as this year's defense, which is 18 PPG. What might have changed though that saw a sudden rise in PPG given up (a full touchdown)? I looked at a lot of those games and I continually saw time of possession issues, and I bought it up back then, even in some big Alabama wins. They were better the previous seasons, when Alabama was less pass oriented. Might it have something to do with a complete change in Alabama's clock management and putting more stress on the defense? Saban has commented on this as a factor, so we know it's part of the problem. Obviously it's not the only factor, but it is irrefutably a factor.

While it's not fair to blame the QB for defensive issues, it's also not fair to blame the defense for problems the offense creates. The issue though is not that the defense is a bit worse. Does anyone here really think Tua isn't good enough to make up a 3 points per game gap over Coker? Obviously he's more than talented enough to do that. The question then is if he's being most effectively used, and in turn is someone like Najee being used most effectively. Is the defense being put in bad positions by short possessions? Could Alabama get more out of the running game and in turn both take pressure off Tua but also take pressure off the defense?

It's one thing to say hey Tua has to do more because the defense isn't as good. Alright. However, this is not only the possible way things could go.

Click to expand...

Here’s the difference: the running game needs Tua to be effective. For whatever reason the last few years our offensive line has been unable to get three yards on third and one. We’ve all seen it. There hasn’t been a game with any consistent run blocking in years. We gash the defense for big chunks sporadically, with lots of one and two yard gains mixed in. These lines do not move the needle, nor do they impose their will. The run game issues aren’t just the line (I’d like to see more pistol formation myself), but it does begin and end with them.

Contrast that with Tua and the receivers on third and medium ? Defense sees it, knows what’s coming and still we convert more often than not.

I think the staff knows the passing game is the more consistent of the two phases and they try to use the running game as a change of pace, a complete 180 from AJ’s championship season where when we were at our best we would have between 30-40 rushing attempts and AJ would throw around 25 times. It’s just the nature of what we have here right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AlexanderFan said:

Here’s the difference: the running game needs Tua to be effective.

Click to expand...

I absolutely agree with that. I wouldn't dream of saying that this should be 2015 with Henry running the ball 40+ times. To give some contrast though, the most Najee has run it at any point this year is 21, so I'd think there is a bit of middle ground.

B1GTide said:

In other words, you cannot blame this year's defensive struggles on an offense that doesn't hold the ball.

Click to expand...

I can blame the LSU loss on that though. LSU won time of possession by 9 minutes, but only gained 18 more yards. LSU did this with a balanced offense, they ran the ball 40 times, they passed it 39 times. I am not saying that's what Alabama should have done mind you, the situation was different, but the disparity, especially when Najee ended up averaging 7.7 is pretty huge.

Alabama passed the ball 40 times. They are listed at 28 rushing attempts, but that's not really what happened. One of those was the bad punt, and three were Tua runs. There were no designed Tua runs that I'm aware of, so what you really had is 43 times you leaned on Tua to make a play, and 23 times that you gave the ball to someone else. That's a massive disparity. Now, obviously Tua as a whole played well but that's not the question. The question is was he used in the most effective way possible?

Tua completed 52.5% of his passes against LSU, no surprise given the fact that he was injured. But, that also means each incompletion stopped the clock. Now you can see how we got part of that 9 minute disparity. Not only that though, but each time you relied on an injured Tua, you were taking a risk given the circumstance. In the second half, and I've made that clear, that's what you had to do. However, Alabama simply didn't have to do that in the first half. Tua was getting pressured, he was clearly rusty and bothered by his injury, yet they still asked him to do too much. The result? Two turnovers, points for LSU, LSU gets 8 possessions (two more than the second half when LSU got the ball first).

Sure, some things are different, may be even better than last year. But Alabama put too much on an injured Tua's shoulders in the first half, and it did not work out well at all. I'm not blaming Tua for that, but the offense scored one TD! It did more harm than good in the first half, and I'm struggling to understand why anyone could be happy with that first half offense.

We love it when our defense rips the ball away from opposing offenses but when we don't get the ball away from them and they are making 1st downs, it just keeps our defense on the field longer as well as them getting in scoring range. I would like to see more tackling the player and not the ball. It would be nice to have more fumbles go our way though.

capnfrog said:

We love it when our defense rips the ball away from opposing offenses but when we don't get the ball away from them and they are making 1st downs, it just keeps our defense on the field longer as well as them getting in scoring range. I would like to see more tackling the player and not the ball. It would be nice to have more fumbles go our way though.

Click to expand...

That's the thing though. Give me a good hard tackling team that isn't afraid of contact. They cause a "turnover" every 4 downs if they don't allow a first down. Then, fumbles will come when the runners start getting weary from the hits.

I just read that Saban said Tua is a game time decision, just like last week. His ankle is still sore and he has not really practiced yet this week except for a few things.

If he is physically ready I hope he at least plays the 1st quarter.

I could be wrong but I dont think we need him the next two weeks to beat MSU and WC (obviously). If he's not able to go, then rest him and have him ready for Auburn. No Tua vs. Auburn equals a Barn win, imo. Two weeks of rest could make a huge difference.

Saban4Ever said:

I just read that Saban said Tua is a game time decision, just like last week. His ankle is still sore and he has not really practiced yet this week except for a few things.

If he is physically ready I hope he at least plays the 1st quarter.

Click to expand...

I say the opposite. I say put Mac in and then Tua as the backup in garbage time to get some low risk reps. Can you imagine how much the opposing defense would just quit if the garbage time QB is Tua? Give him 2 series throwing the ball to keep him in sync with the receivers. The pass rush from the defense will be nonexistent by that point in the game so risk of a hit is low and the game would be in hand.

I'm mostly joking.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Maybe rest him this week and then let him play the first half next week to get the rust off.

rolltide_21 said:

I could be wrong but I dont think we need him the next two weeks to beat MSU and WC (obviously). If he's not able to go, then rest him and have him ready for Auburn. No Tua vs. Auburn equals a Barn win, imo. Two weeks of rest could make a huge difference.

Click to expand...

rolltide_21 said:

I could be wrong but I dont think we need him the next two weeks to beat MSU and WC (obviously). If he's not able to go, then rest him and have him ready for Auburn. No Tua vs. Auburn equals a Barn win, imo. Two weeks of rest could make a huge difference.

Click to expand...

It could, but OTOH we don't know how the committee might view what could be less than impressive wins over MSU and WC with Mac at QB. We just aren't going to score as many points as with Tua. Would the committee forgive us for that or are they expecting us to win big the next two games to keep us at #5?

PA Tide Fan said:

It could, but OTOH we don't know how the committee might view what could be less than impressive wins over MSU and WC with Mac at QB. We just aren't going to score as many points as with Tua. Would the committee forgive us for that or are they expecting us to win big the next two games to keep us at #5?

Click to expand...

maybe that's true about MSU...but we should be able to blow WC off the field with Mac Jones under center.

If he’s ready, let him play.........get the score up there high, then sit him

What is the status if Tua's ankle?

I'll have to go ask it and let you know...Baboooooooooom...

KrAzY3 said:

It's a factor, but for instance Coker had a 175 rating and 0 INTs in his three games against top 4 teams. Your response would probably be something like yeah, Coker didn't throw as much and we both be on the same page in terms of what I think the solution is. Remember, even counting the Georgia comeback game, Tua is 4-2 in top 4 matchups. Had he not been knocked out of the second Georgia game, he would have been 3-3. That's really not great.

There is an issue there when you have someone as talented as Tua. Some people here claimed he'd never lose, and he probably wouldn't if he played with more restraint when the situation calls for it.

Edit: Some of that is on the OC.

Click to expand...

I've stayed off the board for 5 days to avoid any potential negative posts about Tua so I wouldn't lose my mind and get a vacation.

That was wise of me because posts like these are absolutely infuriating.

I have nothing negative to say about Jake Coker but it is important to remember he was protected with conservative playcalling until near the end of the year.

He also had the #2 Scoring Defense backing him up to make sure he wasn't in a lot of shoot outs or close games where the pressure was almost solely on him to lead scoring drive after scoring drive.

He also didn't have the pressure on him to lead those drives primarily through the air because he had a guy named Derrick Henry who had 395 carries for 2,219 yards.

That helped create numerous PA passes that were almost busted coverage because people were cheating up on the line to stop the run.

He also had 2 straight years under the same OC to make him as knowledgeable and comfortable as possible with the Playbook and Audibles/Hot Routes against different coverages and mismatches.

Coker was 3-0 vs Top 4 teams that's correct but he also has 1 loss against a Top 10 team in #9 Ole Miss (#15 when the game was played) because that game went the same way as this past weekends game where Alabama shot themselves in the foot with every pistol, rifle, and shotgun in the house.... reloaded and shot themselves again.....THEN made a big comeback led by Coker's grit and toughness that ultimately fell short.

Also if not for a KR TD by Drake, A Masterful Onside Kick recovery, and TWO Busted Coverage TD's.... Coker....and Alabama very well probably lose to Clemson in that 1st matchup. He played great but he had TONS of help in that game.


Now finally the bold part in there is some Grade A Horse Manure if you are trying to imply that both of Tua's career losses are his fault and no one else's.... I mean you've got to be kidding me with that nonsense??!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His Defense has averaged giving up 45.5 PPG in those two losses. No QB is going to be perfect in Top 4 matchups with a Defense giving up points like that.

We got Clobbered by Clemson last year for sure but the Offensive Staff had almost two feet out the door and Locks called his absolute worst game of the entire year and never could make adjustments to what Clemson was doing.

Tua STILL threw for 295 Yards at 65% with 2 TD's. If he hadn't played in that game we very well may have been shutout 44-0.

Oh and I'm not sure if you noticed this past week but Tua had CONSTANT pressure on him the whole game. He was having to move the pocket all night and threw several balls away or threw them where only his player might could be near the ball. So that plays a huge part in his Comp% only being 52.5%.

He also had the constant pressure of the need to score through the air. That 1st half INT should have never happened. CNS takes the game to Halftime in that situation 99.999999% of time but he took a risk to have Tua pass with 30 secs left and it bit us.

Then in the 2nd half we were playing catchup the whole time with Tua becoming increasingly more banged up.....

And through ALL that he STILL TORCHED LSU for 418 Yards and 4 TD's!!!!!!!!!!

What do you think the score would have been if Mac played that whole game with all those mistakes from everyone happening and the team falling behind 20 points and him having to pass???

We would have lost the game by 20-30+ points...

TUA was the ONLY reason we even had a damn chance to come back and almost win the game because he gutted the whole thing out like a warrior with that same Coker like Toughness and Grit making one spectacular throw after another..... including many on 3rd and 4th down. He was the definition of CLUTCH.

I mean I just don't even really know what else to say here?????????????????

Tua is 22-2 as the Starter and has completely rewritten the record books and has 1 NC and 1 SEC Title on his resume.

You really are trying to make HIM the scapegoat????? Seriously????

This season isn't over...... we could very well make the Playoffs as the #4 Seed and win another NC..... and I can PROMISE you that IF we do..... Tua will be the THE MAIN reason it happens.

Good lord..... The kid deserves better than this from the fanbase.....not that this nonsense is a mojority view but NO ONE should be saracstically blaming him for these 2 losses.....

*S_I_G_H*

Well, tusks_n_raider is fired up this morning. I like it.

Con said:

Well, tusks_n_raider is fired up this morning. I like it.

Click to expand...

My guess is Krazy was trying to make a more generic statement that in my opinion could be applied to almost any competitor that suffered a loss.

We've had lots of discussion about if only Tua would throw it away rather than forcing a throw it would improve his game, along with several other areas along those lines as well.

Scapegoat just seems a bit harsh. I'm sure Krazy understands there are so many variables in a game that even in the losses, if Tua had not made a few mistakes, another player might have.

We've seen all the heart and skill and effort out of Tua that any human could muster and I'm certain everybody agrees with that. Nobody is perfect.