Hoover Must Forfeit Games Due to Ineligible Player

Well, I think they would currently be 2 & 4 in the region since they beat Homewood last week with the player in question sitting out. More than likely they'll beat Oak Mtn and Theodore to end up 4 & 5 (in the state) and 3 & 4 in the region.

So this will give Spain Park their first "victory" ever versus HHS and VHHS their only win in the past 6 games vs. HHS. I believe this will also give Carver-B'ham their only win this season. (the forfeits, that is)

If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em..

Just too bad the players, cheerleaders, band and students have to pay the price for school administrators/coaches breaking the rules. Seems like it would be more fair to just immediately fire all those responsible than punish teenagers who had nothing to do with any of this.

Apparently, HHS may still get into the playoffs.

If games go according to form and Hoover beats Oak Mountain on Friday, that would leave both Hoover and Oak Mountain with 3-4 region records, tied for the 4th spot. Hoover would get the playoff berth based on head-to-head with Oak Mountain, and would have to travel for thier first-round game.

JPT4Bama said:

Just too bad the players, cheerleaders, band and students have to pay the price for school administrators/coaches breaking the rules. Seems like it would be more fair to just immediately fire all those responsible than punish teenagers who had nothing to do with any of this.

Click to expand...

I agree......... sounds like some of the NCAA BS!!!!!!!

JPT4Bama said:

Just too bad the players, cheerleaders, band and students have to pay the price for school administrators/coaches breaking the rules. Seems like it would be more fair to just immediately fire all those responsible than punish teenagers who had nothing to do with any of this.

Click to expand...

So, how would you remedy the teams that they beat using an ineligible player?

What price, exactly, will the cheerleaders, band and students have to pay?

Parrish did this in '88 or '89 and they were banned from the playoffs. I wonder why Hoover gets the special treatment.

Bama Torch in Pcola said:

Parrish did this in '88 or '89 and they were banned from the playoffs. I wonder why Hoover gets the special treatment.

Click to expand...

Because their player played until the playoffs were about to begin. Hoover only has to forfeit the games Tristan played in which was not enough to completely knock Hoover out of the playoffs. GO BUCS!!!!

Jref said:

So, how would you remedy the teams that they beat using an ineligible player?

What price, exactly, will the cheerleaders, band and students have to pay?

Click to expand...

I don't know. There is no way of knowing just how much of a factor this one player was in this year's defeat of those teams.. I do know he didn't play defense so he had nothing to do with these teams not scoring enough to win. I know he wasn't responsible for keeping VHHS's great running back out of the end zone or holding the Rebels to 7 points.

The bigger question is why did it take until now to "discover" this player's ineligibility? Everyone has to show proof of residence when enrolling in school, so why wasn't this taken care of then? Moot point now..

Bama Torch in Pcola said:

Parrish did this in '88 or '89 and they were banned from the playoffs. I wonder why Hoover gets the special treatment.

Click to expand...

I assure you, Hoover will not-does not receive any "special treatment".

I would even go as far as saying they rarely receive "fair" treatment from officials during games.

Please, don't laugh. Over the past several years I've witnessed some of the most incredible calls and even more non-calls than you could imagine. If you think the hatred for CRP doesn't filter down to some officials..well, you would be wrong.

Of course these are not excuses as they have never led directly to any loss which I can recall. But I assure you rarely does HHS get the benefit of the doubt regarding judgement calls and neither is it expected.

JPT4Bama said:

The bigger question is why did it take until now to "discover" this player's ineligibility? Everyone has to show proof of residence when enrolling in school, so why wasn't this taken care of then? Moot point now..

Click to expand...

From reading the press reports, evidently there was an unresolved question of which parent had legal custody, and if that parent made a bona fide move. Proof of residence is not the only criteria when a player transfers.

JPT4Bama said:

I would even go as far as saying they rarely receive "fair" treatment from officials during games.

Please, don't laugh. Over the past several years I've witnessed some of the most incredible calls and even more non-calls than you could imagine. If you think the hatred for CRP doesn't filter down to some officials..well, you would be wrong.

Click to expand...

If that's true -- and I don't concede that it is -- you have to realize that Coach Propst has brought that on himself by his past actions. I was truly embarrassed for him and the Hoover program when I saw him give the "stick it up your butt" sign toward the AHSAA box during the Super Six a couple of years ago.

Look -- if I go to officiate a game involving a coach that I've never met before, I have no preconceived bias against that coach. He is treated like a professional until he does something to alter that.

Now, if he starts to rant and come unglued about a call or non-call, and proceeds to berate me or a crew member personally, I will handle that in an appropriate manner. And he certainly won't get any "benefit of the doubt" after that.

BTW -- I worked the Hoover - VHHS semi-final game last year. We had no problems with the Hoover sideline, despite all the hoopla with MTV, etc, etc. And it was a great HS football game.

Jref said:

From reading the press reports, evidently there was an unresolved question of which parent had legal custody, and if that parent made a bona fide move. Proof of residence is not the only criteria when a player transfers.

Click to expand...

It appears that a court order was deemed necessary to give custody to the parent living in Hoover..and apparently the acting principal and AD were not aware of this technicality/requirement during enrollment last July.

As far as a bona-fide move, well I'm pretty sure here in the USA, citizens are allowed to move anywhere they wish as long as they're not under some type of restraining order or in violation of parole, etc..

I would think it was completely within this student's civil rights to move in with his Father in Hoover, in an attempt to increase his chances of earning an athletic scholarship of some type to allow him to further his education. I believe that's as about as bona-fide as it gets.

But, for whatever reason(s) there are those who feel this should not be allowed, even if the entire incident was done in good faith and with no intent to break any rules or prevent other student athletes within this region from accomplishing their individual and/or team goals.

Now, I guess that unless EVERY student-athlete enrolling in any school (at least within this region), living with a recently divorced parent has already been asked to show their respective court orders regarding legal custody, we can and should expect lawyers to begin investigating if this student and his family's civil rights may have been violated.

The fact that a young man's dreams of attending college and for that matter his future may be at stake means nothing to many people as long as CRP is punished. This kid is being exploited and shamed due to no fault of his own and it just makes me sick.

I really don't have a dog in this hunt unless you count my 2 older kids that played and graduated at Berry HS. My youngest cheers at Thompson HS and the jealousy/envy of parents down here is amazing when it comes to HHS. I try to remind them that HHS was a .500 team at best before CRP arrived there...what they have built is a result of dedication and hard work by a lot of players and their parents, not to mention the faculty and staff.

I read in the local fish wrapper a couple of days ago the HHS doesn't need CRP anymore...that the system will now sustain itself so to speak. I beg to differ....it takes the right situation AND the right person to make a dynasty. Take a look at UA's odyssey since Coach Bryant retired...IMHO we have only had "the goods" twice since then, Coach Stallings & now Coach Saban. Anybody that thinks HHS can just continue by plugging someone else in is either arrogant or delusional. I'm not saying someone else can't do it but those individuals are few and far between. They do not fall from trees!

I have no idea what the Hoover Board of Education will do but if that Baker woman gets her way its "curtains" for CRP. By the way, anyone who thinks she is "unbiased" is kidding themselves. Her son & the rest of the Spain Park football team has had their collective butts handed to them by HHS every year. As a parent of athletes I have lived & died at every event, sat around the dinner table and "cussed/discussed" opposing teams and coaches. For us it was VHHS & Hewitt-Trussville and I can honestly say there is no way I could have put myself in a position of making an "unbiased" decision about one of their coaches! It ain't possible lady so save your breath.

I admire a winner and like it or not CRP is that. Apparently he is a human being afterall and has human failings like you & me. As for the "secret" family in Pell City......maybe, just maybe it is child support that he sends up there. I wonder what these critcs would be saying if he had a responsibilty like that and was NOT accepting it? Just my 2 cents.....

You bring up some interesting points JPT. However, it is not quite as simple as you think. First of all, a person does indeed have a right to move in this country (unless he or she is subject to probation or parole restrictions). However, participation in extracurricular activities is a privilege and not a right. The courts, federal and state, have uniformly ruled that voluntary participation in extracurricular activities requires compliance with the rules of the organization sponsoring the activities (in this case AHSAA).

Secondly, in order to even be enrolled in a new public school, a student is required by law to live in that school district. For a student to have valid residence, he or she must either live with his parents or, if the parents are not married, with the parent who has been granted custody by the courts. Alternatively, the student can reside with a person who has been appointed his or her legal guardian by the courts. In either event, the student should have to present proper documentation before even enrolling in the new school. Even an order granting temporary custody pending a final hearing would probably have been sufficient.

I expect that the student's father will speak with an attorney, if he hasn't already done so, about filing a lawsuit over what has happened. If he finds a lawyer who will take the case (and I'm pretty sure that he will), I doubt that the case will be successful.

I expect that the student's father will speak with an attorney, if he hasn't already done so, about filing a lawsuit over what has happened. If he finds a lawyer who will take the case (and I'm pretty sure that he will), I doubt that the case will be successful.

Click to expand...

And even if it is, specific damages would be hard to quantify. It would certainly be too late to reinstate Hoover's wins this season.

I'm still curious to know how the cheerleaders, students, band, etc. have been damaged by the ruling of the AHSAA, and what "price" they will have to pay.

I saw on the news that tonight's game would decide whether Hoover made the playoffs or not, and thought I'd watch it on Channel 68 in Bham to see how the team responded. The station isn't going to televise it due to "circumstances beyond our control." Was the TV deal another casualty of all the uproar?

Well Hoover is in the playoffs with a 21-18 win over Oak Mountain!!! ***K you Alabama Athletic Association!!!!

Jref said:

And even if it is, specific damages would be hard to quantify. It would certainly be too late to reinstate Hoover's wins this season.

I'm still curious to know how the cheerleaders, students, band, etc. have been damaged by the ruling of the AHSAA, and what "price" they will have to pay.

Click to expand...

The damage is the possible ruination of their senior year for starts. You may not remember or did not have a happy high school experience, but there is a tremendous amount of pride in each successive graduating class as far as maintaining whatever tradition of excellence the respective school has become known for be it football, baseball, marching band, whatever. Remember, these are teenagers in their last four years of secondary school and they have no control over the behavior of adult coaches, administrators or city council/school board members.

When the football team is going to the playoffs it extends everything associated with the football season. This would include pep rallies, marching band being able to play more halftime shows, cheerleaders cheering, students just enjoying all the great things associated with High School.

I wasn't speaking literally about "damage" regarding the students at all. Just that they put a huge amount of their time and effort into these extra-curricular activities which are an important part of the high school experience and then are subject to having it taken away from them through no fault of their own.

bamajake said:

You bring up some interesting points JPT. However, it is not quite as simple as you think. First of all, a person does indeed have a right to move in this country (unless he or she is subject to probation or parole restrictions). However, participation in extracurricular activities is a privilege and not a right. The courts, federal and state, have uniformly ruled that voluntary participation in extracurricular activities requires compliance with the rules of the organization sponsoring the activities (in this case AHSAA).

Secondly, in order to even be enrolled in a new public school, a student is required by law to live in that school district. For a student to have valid residence, he or she must either live with his parents or, if the parents are not married, with the parent who has been granted custody by the courts. Alternatively, the student can reside with a person who has been appointed his or her legal guardian by the courts. In either event, the student should have to present proper documentation before even enrolling in the new school. Even an order granting temporary custody pending a final hearing would probably have been sufficient.

I expect that the student's father will speak with an attorney, if he hasn't already done so, about filing a lawsuit over what has happened. If he finds a lawyer who will take the case (and I'm pretty sure that he will), I doubt that the case will be successful.

Click to expand...

I understand about the privilege of extracurricular activities and such. But, I don't remember when we moved from the Birmingham school system in 1999 to Hoover being asked if I had any court documents showing us having proof of custody of our children other than a birth certificate.

And as far as any legal proceedings, I was referring to using a legal technicality to prevent the student from possibly earning a paid college education, which was the family's intent, not to make HHS a better football team. This is what the student in question told my son in a class they have together back in September.

Im my opinion the onus of verifying a new student's status falls on the school's admission personnel, and not the individual. Do you not think if this issue had been brought up last August it would have been resolved at that time? What if this information was not made available to the newly divorced parent?? What then?

JPT4Bama said:

The damage is the possible ruination of their senior year for starts.

Click to expand...

Oh good grief.

Their senior year isn't any more "ruined" by the record of the football team than if their boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with them, or they come down with a bad case of acne the day before the prom. Come graduation time in May, this will be a distant memory.

Life ain't always fair. Sometimes bad things (even life or death situations) happen through no fault of your own, and if this is the worst they ever have to face, they will have lead very fortunate lives.

I wasn't speaking literally about "damage" regarding the students at all. Just that they put a huge amount of their time and effort into these extra-curricular activities which are an important part of the high school experience and then are subject to having it taken away from them through no fault of their own.

Click to expand...

I have four children who each participated in extra-curricular activities at what was then the 2nd or 3rd largest school in the state. I am fully aware of how much time and effort it takes to make the team / squad, and how much they sacrifice in terms of what the "other students" get to do while they are at practice.

Mine have all been out of HS for at least 7 years, and they haven't been scarred for life by any of the "end of the world" things that happened to them in high school.