Why Did Ray Perkins Replace Bear Bryant?

IMALOYAL1 · Jun 21, 2017

selmaborntidefan said:
I think the answer is "both."

Correct. He felt the job was his to turn down after Perkins. Got his feelings hurt due to the interview requirement.

Bill Curry refused to get in the mud required to recruit some players that Dye was all too willing to get as dirty as needed.

IMALOYAL1 · Jun 21, 2017

jthomas666 said:
IIRC, at the time Stallings was an assistant with the Dallas Cowboys, who were in the midst of a playoff run. Stallings didn't think it would be fair to the Cowboys to take another job in the middle of the playoffs.

I seem to remember the Cowboys did not want to release him from contract at the time also. There are different stories from people that were "in the know"over the years.

fireater · Jun 21, 2017

The whole situation between the tenures had to with academics over football. The interview with Coach Bowden lasted 45 minutes, and was structured around the the relationship of white coaches and black athletes, and was conducted by a recent, at the time, UA QB This interview was a face mask because Curry had already been hired by UA Prez JAT. As for Perkins, CPB was overruled. Sources... a long time highly Respected Assistant Coach, conversations from early 90s, as well as the interviewers sister, a former UP.

CrimsonProf · Jun 21, 2017

To what extent do coaches interview today? I mean, did Gregg Marshall interview with CBB? Did Urban Meyer interview at OSU?

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pcfixup · Jun 21, 2017

IMALOYAL1 said:
I seem to remember the Cowboys did not want to release him from contract at the time also. There are different stories from people that were "in the know"over the years.

I think also that Landry saw Stallings as a potential NFL head coach... possibly as a successor to him.

selmaborntidefan · Jun 21, 2017

Bowden was in our sights both times.

1) After Perkins had left.....
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...00040015_1_bobby-bowden-alabama-robert-fraley

Alabama's procrastination was Florida State's gain. You can chisel it into your favorite hunk of granite that if the University of Alabama had asked Bobby Bowden to be its football coach on Friday, the man who lifted Seminoles football to national prominence would today be on the job at Tuscaloosa.

But the folks from Bama dragged their feet, figuring Bobby would wait for other prospects to be interviewed. The miscalculation resulted in Bowden's decision to withdraw from consideration, and the popular, 57-year-old Prince of the Panhandle will now likely coach FSU until retirement.

(Note: the day in question - Friday - was the same day as Penn State beat Miami in the Fiesta Bowl)

2) After Curry had left....

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...8_1_alabama-job-ingram-coach-at-florida-state

Ingram has declined to mention any names of candidates for the Alabama job, although several have come up in speculation.

They include Bobby Bowden, coach at Florida State, where Ingram was AD before coming to Alabama last year; fired Phoenix Cardinals coach Gene Stallings, former assistant to the late Bear Bryant at Alabama; Louisville coach Howard Schnellenberger, also a former Bryant assistant; Richard Williamson, a former Alabama player who`s now an assistant with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers; and Jimmy Fuller, a Curry aide and a member of national title teams under Bryant.

(Note to history: the BOT voted 14-1 in January 1990 to hire Bobby Bowden but President Sayers overruled them because of Bowden's $565,000 buyout. Another insane note to history: when we hired Stallings, one of the first interviewed to replace Stallings in Phoenix was Giants 37-year old DC Bill Belichick).

selmaborntidefan · Jun 22, 2017

In the FYI department.......Bowden also turned down LSU (when they hired Bo Rein) and Auburn (when they hired Pat Dye).

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-12-05/sports/9312050130_1_auburn-man-terry-bowden-auburn-job

CB4 · Jun 22, 2017

A family member was close friends with the attorney representing Bowden when Perkins resigned. Bobby was led to believe the job was his. He was blindsided by Thomas and the 'interview committee". The attorney's comment to my family member "He (Bowden) was signed, sealed, and delivered. He was only in Tuscaloosa to accept the position and await the press conference. Thomas and Lewis (Walter) screwed this thing up."

Even Hootie Ingram (then FSU AD) and the FSU's President felt "Bobby to Bama" was done. Both were expecting the inevitable call from Bowden to make it official.

Bobby was so mad that, even in 1990 when Curry left, he only spoke with Hootie as a courtesy. He was done with Bama at that point. He wasn't leaving FSU for any job, not even Bama.

As to Perkins, I've always heard he was Bryant's first choice, followed by CGS and then possibly Richard Williamson.

JaxTider · Jun 22, 2017

I remember wanting Schnellenberger. He was mentioned rather prominently, and had the most impressive resume.

He was used up by the time he was a OU, but he would have rolled with the Tide.

I also thought Bowden was the obvious choice when Perk left.

I still think I was correct in both instances from a purely football standpoint ... wins and loses.

Both hires were mistakes.

selmaborntidefan · Jun 26, 2017

JaxTider said:
I remember wanting Schnellenberger. He was mentioned rather prominently, and had the most impressive resume.

He was used up by the time he was a OU, but he would have rolled with the Tide.

I also thought Bowden was the obvious choice when Perk left.

I still think I was correct in both instances from a purely football standpoint ... wins and loses.

Both hires were mistakes.

I agree, except I don't think Howie the Schnell would have lasted very long here.

JaxTider · Jun 29, 2017

selmaborntidefan said:
I agree, except I don't think Howie the Schnell would have lasted very long here.

Your right. It could have been a Mike Price situation. But what he had done with Miami was amazing. He's the man who started the dynasty from nothing.

I remember feeling a lot of apprehension since Coach Bryant was the only Coach I had ever known. I didn't know much about Stallings as a Coach other than his not so stellar record at A&M. And I wasn't sure about Perkins and his ability to transition to college and recruiting.

I was fixated in Miami and Schnellenberger's recruiting. I wast really aware of his drinking at the time.

By the way, he's still kicking in his eighties. Maybe he slowed down.

JaxTider · Jun 29, 2017

When I think of Howard, I always think about the two bad checks he wrote to get Namath down to Tuscaloosa.

He went to recruit him with $300 bucks in his pocket and couldn't get Namath to get on the plane to T Town. So he ran out of money and ending up writing a bad check for the plane tickets back to Tuscaloosa.

He said he would have rather faced the judge over writing bad checks than face Coach Bryant if he came back home without Namath. Lol.

That was from "The Last Coach".

selmaborntidefan · Feb 24, 2018

Btw - I recently got a subscription to a service that gives me access to a LOT of newspapers going back to when General Tidewater served in the Rebel Army. I located an interesting article in the Salina Journal (12/16/82, page 16) and authored by the AP:

"Bryant had high praise for Perkins, who he said he recommended to the search committee as his successor...."

So I guess after almost a decade I have the "what was said right then" answer to my question.

selmaborntidefan · Feb 24, 2018

TIDE-HSV said:
I'll tell you what I heard at the time, and it came from someone personally close to him. You may remember that Coach's public position was that he was staying out of the selection process. If were asked privately, and he was, his second choice was CGS. but his first choice was, in fact, Perkins. The logic was that Coach recognized that the wishbone was passe' - that it had been well dxed and could be defended. One of the reasons he gave publicly for his retirement was that he never wanted to coach kids to pass-block again. Perkins was a respected offensively-minded coach, whereas CGS was the opposite - a defensively-minded coach. He felt that the defense would be fine, but the offense needed revamping totally. I've always accepted this as the truth, both because of who told me and also because it made sense. Whatever the order of choice, it would be unthinkable that Perkins would have been hired without Coach's strong stamp of approval, no matter what he said publicly...

It appears from the press clippings of the time that your memory was/is quite stellar.

4Q Basket Case · Feb 24, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
I agree, except I don't think Howie the Schnell would have lasted very long here.

You are 100% correct. Schnellenberger left a lot of people who mattered in Tuscaloosa with bad feelings about him. I'm told by people who were there (my parents) that he walked out on restaurant tabs, stiffed local merchants on store charge accounts, propositioned women in front of their husbands and fathers, stiffed club members on gambling debts, the list goes on.

And in 1986, plenty of people who remembered were still around, and at the peak of their influence.

It was a different day and time, but he would have made Mike Price, or even Lane Kiffin, look like an Eagle Scout.

Con · Feb 24, 2018

4Q Basket Case said:
You are 100% correct. Schnellenberger left a lot of people who mattered in Tuscaloosa with bad feelings about him. I'm told by people who were there (my parents) that he walked out on restaurant tabs, stiffed local merchants on store charge accounts, propositioned women in front of their husbands and fathers, stiffed club members on gambling debts, the list goes on.

And in 1986, plenty of people who remembered were still around, and at the peak of their influence.

It was a different day and time, but he would have made Mike Price, or even Lane Kiffin, look like an Eagle Scout.

Wow, talk about burning some bridges. You just don't treat people like that.

Crimson1967 · Feb 24, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
In the FYI department.......Bowden also turned down LSU (when they hired Bo Rein) and Auburn (when they hired Pat Dye).

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-12-05/sports/9312050130_1_auburn-man-terry-bowden-auburn-job

I guess he’s really glad he didn’t take the LSU job.

Also, Vince Dooley was all set to take the barn job but changed his mind. This was while UGA was getting ready to play for the national championship.

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selmaborntidefan · Feb 24, 2018

Crimson1967 said:
I guess he’s really glad he didn’t take the LSU job.

Also, Vince Dooley was all set to take the barn job but changed his mind. This was while UGA was getting ready to play for the national championship.

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Yep. That was almost unbelievable.

Tenntiderman · Feb 24, 2018

TiderMan said:
In the book "Coach" by Keith Dunnavant it says that Coach Bryant's official invlovement in the hiring of his sucessor was limited to a list of names that he submitted to then President Joab Thomas. Some say that Stallings was his top choice and Stallings later stated "There aint no question what Coach Bryant wanted".

There was a 5 member committee formed by Thomas and it said that they rejected Stallings. It then mentions that Coach Brayant wanted to name Mal Moore his successor and that Mal believed he was going to get the job. However the committe was moving independently of Coach Bryant.

According to Jack Rutledge, Coach Bryant had called him and said that Mal was going to be the guy and to come over for a meeting. Jack says that when he got over to Coach Bryant's office for the meeting, he was told that it had been changed and Mal was not going to be the coach and said that the search committee took the decision away from Coach Bryant. Jack said that Coach Bryant was hurt that they did not listen to him or go by his wishes.

Also it says that Pat Dye was thought to be a possible successor to Bryant in the years leading up to Coach Bryant's retirement. However when Dye took the Auburn job, that possiblity did not exist anymore.

It is a very good read and can be found in chapter 15 in the book.

Pat Dye was a hot commodity in 1980. I was around back then, and I know that Dye WAS one of Coach Bryant's favorites. As for whether or not he would have been CPB's top choice I wouldn't know that for fact, but I think Dye believes that still. He communicated a lot with CPB. He must have thought that he would have been. In fact....MANY Bama fans thought that Dye would be CPBs successor. I thought so. Shocked me when he took the Awbun job. Many things have happened since then that has affected Dye's standing in the respect arena. He was giving his opinion everyday back then. Just a hard working hoarse Coach in those days trying to build a team somewhere. Dye has stated many times that Coach Bryant didn't want him to take that job in Lee County. I can believe that.

deliveryman35 · Feb 25, 2018

4Q Basket Case said:
You are 100% correct. Schnellenberger left a lot of people who mattered in Tuscaloosa with bad feelings about him. I'm told by people who were there (my parents) that he walked out on restaurant tabs, stiffed local merchants on store charge accounts, propositioned women in front of their husbands and fathers, stiffed club members on gambling debts, the list goes on.

And in 1986, plenty of people who remembered were still around, and at the peak of their influence.

It was a different day and time, but he would have made Mike Price, or even Lane Kiffin, look like an Eagle Scout.

Talk to OU fans about Schnelly and what he did to them in the one season he coached the Sooners in 1995. You will hear very similar stories, though most of the nonsense he was involved in out there seems to have involved alcohol.

Why Did Ray Perkins Replace Bear Bryant?

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