Politics: 2020 Dem POTUS candidate catch all discussion thread

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rgw

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So what we are saying is the future path of the US will either be one of socialism or fascism? Anybody who finds himself in the center will have to make a choice. I am sure I will not be around to see this, but I do feel sorry for my children.
I think that is likely the only two real choices. Centrism is just trying to ignore that the system is falling apart because one currently lives in the privileged position. Let's try out a tomorrow where all web apps can be made by automation where a single business analyst puts in a requirements document and the system craps out a good enough product. You think all those YCombinator Hacker News forum libertarian types are still going to be exalting the wonders of unrestrained capital and putting on the kneepads for guys like Elon Musk? My guess is no. They'll probably "woke tf up" right around the time they realize that nobody needs them to build a storefront in shoppify anymore.
 

rgw

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I've only met two kinds of "centrists" in my life:

1) The person who says they're a centrist but their political views are cut and dry right-wing authoritarianism save a few opinions that are muted compared to the archetypical right-wing authoritarian.

2) The people like I've enumerated above that basically aspire for a static world that doesn't come to grips with the transformational needs to save large swaths of humanity because it would upset their comfort too much

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1074932509014667264

I like some of Pinker's work but that is drivel.

 

DzynKingRTR

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I have never heard a libertarian refer to themselves as a “centrist”. I have only heard left leaning people call themselves “centrist”. Here is a newsflash for you, they are not.
 

Bazza

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I’m just sick of people sticking a label on me and telling me what the hell I am. Don’t try to box me in because you’re too simple to understand nuance or compromise. To hell with that and with (the royal) you.
+1

Just remember that talk forums are for entertainment, venting, and an exchange of ideas.

Name calling and stereotyping are probably a combination of the first two.
 

NationalTitles17

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good thing you weren't a "libtard" on this board the past 15+ years ;)
At various times I’ve been a libtard fascist racist radical centrist curmudgeon dreamer idiot unrealistic and about any other thing you can throw out there. Instead of listening and considering what is said and if there’s any merit it seems too many are busy formulating a canned one sided slanted erroneous response. Nuance and compromise are lost arts. Taking someone at their word and understanding different perspectives also. Are there some that would abuse the privilege? Sure. I have a decent track record IMHO overall of late. Labels too often are thrown out by people who can’t make a persuasive argument to save their life.
 
I have never heard a libertarian refer to themselves as a “centrist”. I have only heard left leaning people call themselves “centrist”. Here is a newsflash for you, they are not.
The far right/alt-right wing of the Republican Party has skewed the political landscape to the point that anything toward the middle or left of them is considered a communist.

Ike would be considered a socialist were he running for office today.
 

92tide

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At various times I’ve been a libtard fascist racist radical centrist curmudgeon dreamer idiot unrealistic and about any other thing you can throw out there. Instead of listening and considering what is said and if there’s any merit it seems too many are busy formulating a canned one sided slanted erroneous response. Nuance and compromise are lost arts. Taking someone at their word and understanding different perspectives also. Are there some that would abuse the privilege? Sure. I have a decent track record IMHO overall of late. Labels too often are thrown out by people who can’t make a persuasive argument to save their life.
i have to say i do find it funny when people refer to you (and others) as a libtard/leftist
 

DzynKingRTR

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At various times I’ve been a libtard fascist racist radical centrist curmudgeon dreamer idiot unrealistic and about any other thing you can throw out there. Instead of listening and considering what is said and if there’s any merit it seems too many are busy formulating a canned one sided slanted erroneous response. Nuance and compromise are lost arts. Taking someone at their word and understanding different perspectives also. Are there some that would abuse the privilege? Sure. I have a decent track record IMHO overall of late. Labels too often are thrown out by people who can’t make a persuasive argument to save their life.
Full Banjeaux sir.
 

GrayTide

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I've only met two kinds of "centrists" in my life:

1) The person who says they're a centrist but their political views are cut and dry right-wing authoritarianism save a few opinions that are muted compared to the archetypical right-wing authoritarian.

2) The people like I've enumerated above that basically aspire for a static world that doesn't come to grips with the transformational needs to save large swaths of humanity because it would upset their comfort too much

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1074932509014667264

I like some of Pinker's work but that is drivel.

Every person, family member, friend or acquaintance I know who voted for Trump is defined by both #1 and #2 you outlined above. He played to their fears and they bought it hook, line, and sinker. As long as a conventional, white, male, middle of the road candidate was offered up you did not clearly see their bigotry, that all changed with Trump. They clearly saw their choice between socialism, in Clinton and, fascism in Trump and voted as I expected they would.
 

rgw

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Every person, family member, friend or acquaintance I know who voted for Trump is defined by both #1 and #2 you outlined above. He played to their fears and they bought it hook, line, and sinker. As long as a conventional, white, male, middle of the road candidate was offered up you did not clearly see their bigotry, that all changed with Trump. They clearly saw their choice between socialism, in Clinton and, fascism in Trump and voted as I expected they would.
I don't think Clinton was a socialist or offering socialism. She's part of the problem. She's was a market-tested candidate backed by the financial sector who had a poor track record on minority rights, police state, and social welfare. She was the wife of the president who signed the awful welfare reforms and NAFTA and arguably her voting record was even more right leaning than Bill's. There is a reason why she lost supposed "blue bloc" midwestern states in 2016. So long as our "left" in this country is such a meek patsy to the financial/industrial elite, our fall into the excesses of right-wing extremism is all but assured.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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In the '60s and '70s, I was a pretty typical young Republican. I believed in balanced budgets, limited spending, limited government and a strong defense, in addition to the 2nd amendment. Guess what? That's still what I believe in. In '60s, the Republican Party started to be taken over by religion. I detested abortion, but my belief in individual liberties trumped that. At that time, through the 70s, even the Baptist church, as a whole didn't have a position firmly against abortion. If you don't believe me, brush up on your history. First, the Republican party made abortion a cornerstone, then prayer in school and finally down to absurdities like 10 commandments monuments on state grounds. (#11 - Thou shalt not stalk teenage girls got left off.)

Now, the Republican party seems to be about immigration, race and religion. Sound fiscal practices went out the window a long time ago. It seems to me that, today, people who want to wear that label are "RINO." It's certainly no longer the party of Lincoln. I've been accused of being leftist by people who are profoundly and abysmally ignorant of the history of their own party...
 

NationalTitles17

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Well, I stand corrected. Still hate that term. I am with NationalTitles17, why label me anything at all?
Because they have to box you in to contain you. It's really that simple, just like their minds.

i have to say i do find it funny when people refer to you (and others) as a libtard/leftist
Truly shows their ignorance, doesn't it? Funny thing is, I'm not too far off from where I was, much like Earle - but I did think for myself more often and came up with some different views/solutions that make a hell of a lot more sense than any of the morons I used to listen to.

I don't think Clinton was a socialist or offering socialism. She's part of the problem. She's was a market-tested candidate backed by the financial sector who had a poor track record on minority rights, police state, and social welfare. She was the wife of the president who signed the awful welfare reforms and NAFTA and arguably her voting record was even more right leaning than Bill's. There is a reason why she lost supposed "blue bloc" midwestern states in 2016. So long as our "left" in this country is such a meek patsy to the financial/industrial elite, our fall into the excesses of right-wing extremism is all but assured.
Clinton was a horrible candidate and one of a select realistic few who could have lost to the likes of Trump. Let's not leave off her husband's dismal record on crime and race, though. Maybe, like me, she had a change of heart over the years. Hard to know for sure since she never had the opportunity to show us something different.

In the '60s and '70s, I was a pretty typical young Republican. I believed in balanced budgets, limited spending, limited government and a strong defense, in addition to the 2nd amendment. Guess what? That's still what I believe in. In '60s, the Republican Party started to be taken over by religion. I detested abortion, but my belief in individual liberties trumped that. At that time, through the 70s, even the Baptist church, as a whole didn't have a position firmly against abortion. If you don't believe me, brush up on your history. First, the Republican party made abortion a cornerstone, then prayer in school and finally down to absurdities like 10 commandments monuments on state grounds. (#11 - Thou shalt not stalk teenage girls got left off.)

Now, the Republican party seems to be about immigration, race and religion. Sound fiscal practices went out the window a long time ago. It seems to me that, today, people who want to wear that label are "RINO." It's certainly no longer the party of Lincoln. I've been accused of being leftist by people who are profoundly and abysmally ignorant of the history of their own party...
The core religious republican beliefs didn't change either, though - and they are willing to send the country to hell to save it from hell. I'm with you on abortion and it took a looooonnngg time to get there. My one suspension from here arose from an argument over it. There's still a tug of war but it comes down to who decides - the individual or the government? I'll side with the individual and their medical privacy now, even if reluctantly. I'm not yet and may never be at a point where I would actively participate in one and while I don't want someone poking their nose in the decision of the woman I sure don't want some jerk from the other side telling me I have to choose between my profession and my conscience. The latter can go do unsavory things to themselves just as fast or faster than the former. It's easy to see why I don't fit in a box, both sides hate me and blame me for their own stupidity, and neither party holds any great promise, sway, or shine for me.

I don't mind telling someone what I think of their position but try to avoid putting words in their mouths or labeling them. I'm not perfect because I'm human, but I do try. Not much gets my blood boiling more than being blamed for someone else's failure to find a persuasive argument or being labeled and boxed in. Well, people willing to put party over country comes pretty close and maybe exceeds it. Glossing over wrongdoing for "your guy" also does it. All the things that make my blood boil are everything that politics has become today.
 

Bazza

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Because they have to box you in to contain you. It's really that simple, just like their minds.



Truly shows their ignorance, doesn't it? Funny thing is, I'm not too far off from where I was, much like Earle - but I did think for myself more often and came up with some different views/solutions that make a hell of a lot more sense than any of the morons I used to listen to.



Clinton was a horrible candidate and one of a select realistic few who could have lost to the likes of Trump. Let's not leave off her husband's dismal record on crime and race, though. Maybe, like me, she had a change of heart over the years. Hard to know for sure since she never had the opportunity to show us something different.



The core religious republican beliefs didn't change either, though - and they are willing to send the country to hell to save it from hell. I'm with you on abortion and it took a looooonnngg time to get there. My one suspension from here arose from an argument over it. There's still a tug of war but it comes down to who decides - the individual or the government? I'll side with the individual and their medical privacy now, even if reluctantly. I'm not yet and may never be at a point where I would actively participate in one and while I don't want someone poking their nose in the decision of the woman I sure don't want some jerk from the other side telling me I have to choose between my profession and my conscience. The latter can go do unsavory things to themselves just as fast or faster than the former. It's easy to see why I don't fit in a box, both sides hate me and blame me for their own stupidity, and neither party holds any great promise, sway, or shine for me.

I don't mind telling someone what I think of their position but try to avoid putting words in their mouths or labeling them. I'm not perfect because I'm human, but I do try. Not much gets my blood boiling more than being blamed for someone else's failure to find a persuasive argument or being labeled and boxed in. Well, people willing to put party over country comes pretty close and maybe exceeds it. Glossing over wrongdoing for "your guy" also does it. All the things that make my blood boil are everything that politics has become today.
That was powerful and quite passionate. Thank you!

I am proud to be registered NPA. I wonder if there are bumper stickers for that? :wink:
 
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