Question: A question about the 1992 defense

STONECOLDSABAN

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Ive been reading a lot about 1992 defense and one thing ive gathered is that our offense would go three and out a lot..and put our defense out on the field. Im just wondering did the 1992 defense have superior conditioning of some kind???? because ive seen even the greatest of defenses get worn down and shaky if the offense is completley anemic. but from reading this board it seemed like that just didn't happen with the 1992 defense... i want to track down some of the games where bamas O struggled the most like the 17-10 win over UT (who had a good offense that year i believe) and see how the defense just kept coming back on the field after our offense would do absolutley zero. all of the 1992 games ive seen the offense had some kind of measure of sucess. 30 points against miss state....21 (i didn't throw in langams td.) against florida. 27 points against Miami (i didn't put in george teagues int). so can anyone shed some light on how the defense didn't get worn down if our Offense was as anemic as some people on this board say it was in 1992?? i was to young to remember the 1992 defense so i want to learn as much as i can about them.

One final thought...the 2011 defense is probably the greatest ive seen in my lifetime so i want to see how the game was diffrent in 1992 (i don't try to compare because the game is always changing)
 

TrampLineman

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Well you also have to put in the fact David Palmer was a HUGE threat and could either make a huge play receiving, and returning punts or kicks as well. When the offense did move a lot of the times we had the short field too. Sometimes we didn't and would chew up time running the ball as it was rare to see us "air it out". When you kill quite a few minutes when running so much the defense doesn't have to be on the field all day.

If you want to wonder what it was like watching games in 1992, watch some this year. Power running game to kill the clock, and dominating defense that is suffocating. About the biggest difference to me was the line play on defense, Curry and Copeland constantly harassed QB's all day long.
 

uaintn

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Part of it was that Curry and Copeland were very nearly freaks of nature. It did not appear to wear them down to play a lot in a game. Langham was also good to cover the other team's best receiver all game if necessary. The rest of that defense played to a very high physical standard as well. The Miami game is a good example. We scored a lot of points, but some were scored by Defense and some were set up by defense. It just didn't seem to bother them to play a lot.
 

Florida Tom

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To me the Key was Curry & Copeland they just did not stop. Fastest Big men I have ever seen that & the D Backs were just so fast. They did an artilce in the Tampa Tribune about larmar thomas' ankles how they were skinny like a deer 7 he run so fast they called the reciever corp the awsome posey.

so when teague ran him down took the ball way it was a true highlight.

http://youtu.be/Kx1AZSeCkkM
 

uafan4life

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Well, it seems that the 1992 defense wasn't on the field all that much, at least not compared to this year's team.

In 1992, Alabama held onto the ball for 32:36 per game, through 12 games.
In 2011, Alabama has held onto the ball for 32:46 per game, through 7 games.

So, basically, the 1992 defense spent 10 more seconds per game on the field than the 2011 version has so far this year.


Also, as beleaguered as that 1992 offense was, Alabama ended the season ranked 26th (out of 107) in the country in scoring offense at 27.7 points per game.

Here are some other stats from that year's offensive unit:
362.83 yards per game (53rd out of 107)
5.1 yards per play
4.3 yards per rush
6.8 yards per passing attempt

A few defensive stats from 1992:
Rushing Defense: 55 yards per game, 1.7 yards per carry (both 1st in the country)
Passing Defense: 139.2 Yards Per Game, 5.06 Yards Per Attempt (both top 5 in country)
Passing Efficiency Defense: 84.87 rating (2nd in country)
Total Defense: 194.2 Yards Per Game, 3.2 Yards Per Play (both 1st in country)
Scoring Defense: 9.1 Points Per Game (2nd in country)


Some miscellaneous / special teams stats:
Turnover Margin: 1.42 (4th)
Turnovers Forced: 37 (1st)
Net Punting: 37.6 Yards per Punt (86th)
Punt Returns: 7.8 Yards Per Return (67th)
--- This despite having two punts returned for TDs
Kickoff Returns: 16.7 Yards Per Return (102nd)

We were surprisingly bad on special teams. :)
 

selmaborntidefan

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Ive been reading a lot about 1992 defense and one thing ive gathered is that our offense would go three and out a lot..and put our defense out on the field. Im just wondering did the 1992 defense have superior conditioning of some kind???? because ive seen even the greatest of defenses get worn down and shaky if the offense is completley anemic. but from reading this board it seemed like that just didn't happen with the 1992 defense... i want to track down some of the games where bamas O struggled the most like the 17-10 win over UT (who had a good offense that year i believe) and see how the defense just kept coming back on the field after our offense would do absolutley zero. all of the 1992 games ive seen the offense had some kind of measure of sucess. 30 points against miss state....21 (i didn't throw in langams td.) against florida. 27 points against Miami (i didn't put in george teagues int). so can anyone shed some light on how the defense didn't get worn down if our Offense was as anemic as some people on this board say it was in 1992?? i was to young to remember the 1992 defense so i want to learn as much as i can about them.

One final thought...the 2011 defense is probably the greatest ive seen in my lifetime so i want to see how the game was diffrent in 1992 (i don't try to compare because the game is always changing)
I have every game from that season except the La Tech game. Here's what I can tell you:

1) We had a very good field goal kicker in Michael Proctor. He was only a freshman, but if you got him inside 50 yards he was close to automatic. He almost single-handedly beat Vandy in the opener as far as the scoring goes (I think he kicked six FGs).

2) David Palmer was a game breaker who could single-handedly change field position in one play. Don't forget that Palmer missed the first 4 or 5 games due to TWO DUI suspensions from Gene Stallings.

3) The offense often had a short field to work with because our D was so great at getting turnovers.

4) Derrick Lassic, Tarrant Lynch, and Martin Houston were just good enough behind a VERY good O-line to put together some drives and keep the clock moving. Remember, we held the ball for about 36 minutes against Miami and most of it was just Lassic into the line. Barker only completed four passes - and two of them were caught by the other team. He only threw for 12 yards - and don't forget Miami had a VERY good D-line (Michael Barrow, Jesse Armstead).

5) Consider a few examples of how anemic the offense was:

One TD vs Vandy
One TD vs USM (the first was on a fake punt to Tommy Johnson on the first possession of the game)
No TDs vs La Tech
6-0 at halftime vs Tulane
0-0 at halftime against a 5-6 Auburn team

That's almost HALF of the season games right there.

On the other hand, we exploded against Arkansas and South Carolina and the second half against Tulane - but none of those teams were very good anyway. Same with LSU. In point of fact, the 1992 SEC was considered weak until the conference went 5-1 in bowl games.

A good example of the strangeness was the USM game. We won, 17-10. But USM only had THREE first downs the entire game!!! THREE!!! And IIRC one of those was on a penalty. Their TD was an interception returned for a TD. Moments later they got a fumble. They went nine yards backwards and kicked a FG for their tenth point.

You also have to remember that Alabama only trailed for about a half - if you combine all the minutes - the entire year. We only trailed USM for a few minutes, MSU for about a quarter, Florida for a drive or two, and never trailed Miami.

This year's offense is MUCH better than the 1992 team. I think this is more like the 1994 offense with the 1992 defense - a lethal combo.
 

STONECOLDSABAN

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I have every game from that season except the La Tech game. Here's what I can tell you:

1) We had a very good field goal kicker in Michael Proctor. He was only a freshman, but if you got him inside 50 yards he was close to automatic. He almost single-handedly beat Vandy in the opener as far as the scoring goes (I think he kicked six FGs).

2) David Palmer was a game breaker who could single-handedly change field position in one play. Don't forget that Palmer missed the first 4 or 5 games due to TWO DUI suspensions from Gene Stallings.

3) The offense often had a short field to work with because our D was so great at getting turnovers.

4) Derrick Lassic, Tarrant Lynch, and Martin Houston were just good enough behind a VERY good O-line to put together some drives and keep the clock moving. Remember, we held the ball for about 36 minutes against Miami and most of it was just Lassic into the line. Barker only completed four passes - and two of them were caught by the other team. He only threw for 12 yards - and don't forget Miami had a VERY good D-line (Michael Barrow, Jesse Armstead).

5) Consider a few examples of how anemic the offense was:

One TD vs Vandy
One TD vs USM (the first was on a fake punt to Tommy Johnson on the first possession of the game)
No TDs vs La Tech
6-0 at halftime vs Tulane
0-0 at halftime against a 5-6 Auburn team

That's almost HALF of the season games right there.

On the other hand, we exploded against Arkansas and South Carolina and the second half against Tulane - but none of those teams were very good anyway. Same with LSU. In point of fact, the 1992 SEC was considered weak until the conference went 5-1 in bowl games.

A good example of the strangeness was the USM game. We won, 17-10. But USM only had THREE first downs the entire game!!! THREE!!! And IIRC one of those was on a penalty. Their TD was an interception returned for a TD. Moments later they got a fumble. They went nine yards backwards and kicked a FG for their tenth point.

You also have to remember that Alabama only trailed for about a half - if you combine all the minutes - the entire year. We only trailed USM for a few minutes, MSU for about a quarter, Florida for a drive or two, and never trailed Miami.

This year's offense is MUCH better than the 1992 team. I think this is more like the 1994 offense with the 1992 defense - a lethal combo.
intresting...so the strenght of the 92 defense was the line....with every thing else being really good. while 2011 defense the strength is in the linebackers and secondary with the line still being really good. i believe through my research that the 92 team played primarly zone (i saw a video where lamar thomas before the sugar bowl was running his fat mouth about how bama couldn't play man...dufus) but they could switch it up they were a 4-3 base is that correct?? ..while the 2011 defense plays more man to man coverage with a 3-4 base but can switch is up as well. im trying to get better about understanding schemes in football so i welcome everyone input and tell me if im mistaken.
 

boatmax

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#1 is that Alabama was virtually injury free that year, which is a freak of nature in itself.
#2 is that Coach Stallings is and was a defensive minded coach, and gave the defense fist pick of all of the Athletes.
#3 is that he did not have an Offensive Coordinator, but called the the plays. Mal Moore was the Quarterbacks Coach, and took all of the blame for the "ugly" offense.
#4 is that with two defensive ends that were unstoppable on every play, the other teams had huge problems trying to block them.
 

uafan4life

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intresting...so the strenght of the 92 defense was the line....with every thing else being really good. while 2011 defense the strength is in the linebackers and secondary with the line still being really good. i believe through my research that the 92 team played primarly zone (i saw a video where lamar thomas before the sugar bowl was running his fat mouth about how bama couldn't play man...dufus) but they could switch it up they were a 4-3 base is that correct?? ..while the 2011 defense plays more man to man coverage with a 3-4 base but can switch is up as well. im trying to get better about understanding schemes in football so i welcome everyone input and tell me if im mistaken.
Well, the line was the strength of the defense but there was no weakness.

We only had two (lol, only) consensus All Americans that year, in Curry and Copeland. However, most of the media saw the SEC as being weak that year. Had the All Americans been selected after the Bowl games, we probably would have had a couple more. We had a couple other guys selected to second team All America teams, but I can't remember who they were and you can only really find info on the consensus first teams.

However, we did have 7 out of the 11 SEC Defensive Players of the Year: Copeland, Curry, Hall, Oden, London, Langham, and Teague. That's two linemen, three linebackers, and two defensive backs. All three levels were very, very good.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I didn't say the primary strength was the line. The main thing was the SPEED. Remember that Teague caught Lamar Thomas - a track star - from 8 yards behind.

People overlook that our 1990 D was good & our 1991 was as good as Washington and Miami, the co-champs. Folks forget that because of the record in 1990 - but look closer at those losses:

USM - turnovers
Florida & Georgia scored 17 & 16, both getting special teams TDs
Penn State beat us 9-0 and one of those FGs was 50 yards
Only Louisville really drilled us and one of their TDs was a blocked punt and they got a safety

That 90 team held UT to 6 points one week after that put 45 on Spurrier

The 91 team had one bad half and that started with an INT in our territory. Fact is the 1992 defense was a 3-year project in the making.

Kinda like 2011?
 
I didn't say the primary strength was the line. The main thing was the SPEED. Remember that Teague caught Lamar Thomas - a track star - from 8 yards behind.

People overlook that our 1990 D was good & our 1991 was as good as Washington and Miami, the co-champs. Folks forget that because of the record in 1990 - but look closer at those losses:

USM - turnovers
Florida & Georgia scored 17 & 16, both getting special teams TDs
Penn State beat us 9-0 and one of those FGs was 50 yards
Only Louisville really drilled us and one of their TDs was a blocked punt and they got a safety

That 90 team held UT to 6 points one week after that put 45 on Spurrier

The 91 team had one bad half and that started with an INT in our territory. Fact is the 1992 defense was a 3-year project in the making.

Kinda like 2011?
You hit the nail on the head then. I remember the 92 D. I was only 12 and I followed these guys since 10. The only let down I saw was that Louisville game and they just destroyed us. 45-0 I think. That defense is probably the best because the D line was such a force. Having a secondary that included Langham and Teague is really unfair. These guys though, took their lumps. I remember Florida running it up on them too, but they never stopped playing and learning. I just can't believe that Mississippi State almost got them though. Derrick Lassic saved that game for us. Jackie Sherrill had those dogs ready to play that year. However, I am still willing to revisit best after this season if it includes a national championship. 92 ran a different scheme than 2011. But they were every bit nasty.. You just couldn't do anything with Curry and Copeland, kinda like Upshaw and Hightower.
 

TiderJack

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Saying it was Curry and Copeland is a mis-justice. The DB's on the 92 team were Langham and Tommy Johnson at CB and Teague and Sam Shade at safety. The 92 team had 8 starters on defense who played in the NFL. It was a dominant defense. Stallings knew how good they were and played a smash mouth, conservative offense and with a young, inexperienced Barker at QB it was the right thing to do. This years offense is much better than 92 and this years defense may end up being better if they can continue what they are doing and win a N.C.
 

uafan4life

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You know, looking at the numbers, this year's defense compares very favorably to the '92 defense. First, you have to consider the environment. Offenses overall in 2011 are averaging significantly more points and more yards per game than offenses in 1992. At the end of the year, the schedule and quality of offenses that this defense will have faced will be significantly more difficult than what the '92 defense faced. You have to take that into account when comparing them. Having said that, here are some numbers to look at:

Worst Performances:

1992 Defense:
Rushing Yards Allowed: 138
Passing Yards Allowed: 287
Total Yards Allowed: 326
Points Allowed: 21

2011 Defense:
Rushing Yards Allowed: 107
Passing Yards Allowed: 209
Total Yards Allowed: 251
Points Allowed: 14


Best Performances:

1992 Defense:
Rushing Yards Allowed: -8
Passing Yards Allowed: 26
Total Yards Allowed: 54
Points Allowed: 0

2011 Defense:
Rushing Yards Allowed: -9
Passing Yards Allowed: 99
Total Yards Allowed: 90
Points Allowed: 0



Averages:

1992 Defense:
Rushing Yards Allowed: 55.0
Passing Yards Allowed: 139.2
Passing Efficiency: 84.87
Total Yards Allowed: 194.2
Points Allowed: 9.1

2011 Defense:
Rushing Yards Allowed: 38.1
Passing Yards Allowed: 146.0
Passing Efficiency: 84.91
Total Yards Allowed: 184.1
Points Allowed: 7.0



By those numbers, the 2011 defense compares very well to the 1992 defense. The 2011 defense appears to be more consistent, while the 1992 team had a few better overall performances as well as a few worse performances than the current squad. However, look at those numbers in light of these numbers, which are the averages that Alabama's opponents put up in '92 as well as this year (excluding Ga. Southern) so far:

1992:
Rushing Yards Per Game: 147.5
Passing Yards Per Game: 175.1
Total Yards Per Game: 322.6
Points Per Game: 20.4

2011:
Rushing Yards Per Game: 141.7
Passing Yards Per Game: 191.9
Total Yards Per Game: 333.6
Points Per Game: 25.0



Bottom line: so far this year the 2011 defense has limited their opponents more, relatively speaking, than the 1992 defense did against their opponents. If the 2011 defense's numbers hold up through the rest of the season, then this will likely be a better relative defense, as far as the numbers go, than the 1992 defense. Of course, there's a lot of football left to be played this year, so that could change.

In fact, at this point, the only thing the 1992 defense did significantly better than the 2011 defense has done is in regards to turnovers and defensive scoring. The 1992 defense created more turnovers and scored more than this defense. Of course, there's a lot of football left to be played this year, so that could change, too. :)
 
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