Alabama QBs in 2024, II

graydogg85

1st Team
Feb 7, 2006
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I remember thinking in the offseason last year that Buchner would probably be the guy - it didn’t make sense to me why you’d bring him in otherwise. The connection with Rees, the fact that he began the 2022 season as the starter at ND prior to an injury - it just made sense, and the reports coming out of spring practice were that neither Milroe nor Simpson looked ready.

81’s comments seem to line up with this.

I am curious though - this “revolt” that we keep hearing about - did that have more to do with Buchner and less to do with JM/TS? I personally never saw anything last year that looked to me like anyone “laying down” for JM or TS. But it would explain the absolutely horrendous first half Buchner had against USF. We tend to rag on the guy, but he was a well-regarded recruit who made some plays at ND, and honestly looked pretty good in relief action against MTSU. I also remember hearing a few times in fall camp last year that Buchner looked better than JM or TS.

If this is the case, I feel bad for Buchner (unless he’s a total jerk who didn’t endear himself to his teammates). Sounds like CTR and CNS had their guy but the team wasn’t having it.
 
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CrimsonBloodn62

1st Team
Feb 1, 2002
848
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I remember thinking in the offseason last year that Buchner would probably be the guy - it didn’t make sense to me why you’d bring him in otherwise. The connection with Rees, the fact that he began the 2022 season as the starter at ND prior to an injury - it just made sense, and the reports coming out of spring practice were that neither Milroe nor Simpson looked ready.

81’s comments seem to line up with this.

I am curious though - this “revolt” that we keep hearing about - did that have more to do with Buchner and less to do with JM/TS? I personally never saw anything last year that looked to me like anyone “laying down” for JM or TS. But it would explain the absolutely horrendous first half Buchner had against USF. We tend to rag on the guy, but he was a well-regarded recruit who made some plays at ND, and honestly looked pretty good in relief action against MTSU. I also remember hearing a few times in fall camp last year that Buchner looked better than JM or TS.

If this is the case, I feel bad for Buchner (unless he’s a total jerk who didn’t endear himself to his teammates). Sounds like CTR and CNS had their guy but the team wasn’t having it.
If you can stomach watching the game again, it's not too hard to pick out the players who were not giving their full effort when Ty was in the game against USF. Now here come your defenders, saying, Do you really think Saban would let that happen and not pull the players? He let certain players get away with it that game for some reason.
 
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HighlandOak

1st Team
Mar 8, 2023
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I think at this point it may take rotating quarters or a set number of offensive plays in live games for these two to sort this nonsense out. It’s definitely not ideal, but if Simpson is the answer the team will need to see him outperform Milroe in the same game to be swayed to let the best player play.

If Simpson can’t do that, then who knows.
"The team"? As in the guys that pouted until Milroe was re-inserted as the starter?
 
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JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
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If you consider that neither JM or TS separated themselves after spring 2023 with backdrop that Saban was secretly mulling retirement over the summer, then I think a lot of the other following decisions make more sense.

1. Saban knew he could win with the defense he was fielding if he could play more ball control offense, which was the plan in hiring CTR. Steele knew what was expected in his swan season.
2. Accepting TB as a summer transfer because CTR had coached him and TB being able to pick up the offense quickly. CNS likely relied heavily on CTR's reference on TB.
3. TB likely took reps from TS in the fall because again he is positioned to be QB1 stunting TS progress.
4. JM likely is upset about the arrival of TB and is rallying support in the locker room. Notable players in the JM camp are Booker, Brooks, and McClellan. Brooks sees limited snaps throughout the season.
5. JM shows his butt in film study after Texas game, gets suspended. The coaches likely think this is the open door for TB to assume starting role thus he is given the opportunity to start v USF. I wouldn't put it past the coaches to jump on JM extra hard in film study, again they needed a plausible way to get TB on the field. JM took the bait.
6. The OL and certain skill guys saw through the charade of what was happening. They decide to stage a sit-in. TB will have to win the starting role without help of key offensive contributors. Booker comes up with back spasms. McClellan whiffs on blitz pickups. Proctor doesn't block anybody. Interestingly, I don't remember any bad snaps by McLaughlin in the USF game.
7. TB stinks it up in the game and knows he doesn't have the support of the team. He's done.
8. TS is called on to win the game because JM is suspended. McClellan is benched or "injured" in the game and Roydell actually works to help TS. The win is saved.
9. Either the OL didn't want TS as the starter thereafter or the OL was so porous it necessitated scrapping the offense that CNS/CTR wanted to run.
10. JM re-emerges as the only option for the remainder of the season and the rest is history. But it wasn't the plan for JM to be QB1.

The way I see last season is that players and coaches alike, CNS included, had some very selfish motives. The coaches likely picked up on that CNS was retiring from their agents. Everyone was pursuing their own agenda. Do what's necessary to get one last NC. Almost did it too. But the can was kicked down the road on who is the future QB1.
 
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BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
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There's been so much info that's already leaked out that it seems impossible to not think some serious locker room drama was taking place. How deep and widespread it was will likely never be known. Only person that could probably clear it us in probably the least likely to talk about it; which is CNS.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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There's been so much info that's already leaked out that it seems impossible to not think some serious locker room drama was taking place. How deep and widespread it was will likely never be known. Only person that could probably clear it us in probably the least likely to talk about it; which is CNS.
We do know there had become some childish behavior in the locker room of helmet throwing and out bursts because it's been reported that is having to be cleaned up now by the new staff. There was smoke and no doubt some fire. We just don't know how hot or high the flames were.
 
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colbysullivan

Hall of Fame
Dec 12, 2007
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We do know there had become some childish behavior in the locker room of helmet throwing and out bursts because it's been reported that is having to be cleaned up now by the new staff. There was smoke and no doubt some fire. We just know how hot or high the flames were.
The thing is though, facts like that simply aren't enough to sway some people. For example, you literally had commentators doing Bama games talking about how the coaching staff had to dumb down the playbook in order for Milroe to have success. A couple of them even used the telestrator to show examples. To this day, you STILL have people that deny this happened, and Milroe just magically got better on his own...

At this point, I think it's clear @JDCrimson 's post above is more or less what happened. Frankly, it's amazing we won the SEC championship last year.
 

tusks_n_raider

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May 13, 2009
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We do know there had become some childish behavior in the locker room of helmet throwing and out bursts because it's been reported that is having to be cleaned up now by the new staff. There was smoke and no doubt some fire. We just know how hot or high the flames were.
Hmm I dunno. Unless CNS gives a sworn deposition with notarized statements from everyone else involved we just can’t know for sure.
 

Bama9001

1st Team
Sep 26, 2017
460
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If you consider that neither JM or TS separated themselves after spring 2023 with backdrop that Saban was secretly mulling retirement over the summer, then I think a lot of the other following decisions make more sense.

1. Saban knew he could win with the defense he was fielding if he could play more ball control offense, which was the plan in hiring CTR. Steele knew what was expected in his swan season.
2. Accepting TB as a summer transfer because CTR had coached him and TB being able to pick up the offense quickly. CNS likely relied heavily on CTR's reference on TB.
3. TB likely took reps from TS in the fall because again he is positioned to be QB1 stunting TS progress.
4. JM likely is upset about the arrival of TB and is rallying support in the locker room. Notable players in the JM camp are Booker, Brooks, and McClellan. Brooks sees limited snaps throughout the season.
5. JM shows his butt in film study after Texas game, gets suspended. The coaches likely think this is the open door for TB to assume starting role thus he is given the opportunity to start v USF. I wouldn't put it past the coaches to jump on JM extra hard in film study, again they needed a plausible way to get TB on the field. JM took the bait.
6. The OL and certain skill guys saw through the charade of what was happening. They decide to stage a sit-in. TB will have to win the starting role without help of key offensive contributors. Booker comes up with back spasms. McClellan whiffs on blitz pickups. Proctor doesn't block anybody. Interestingly, I don't remember any bad snaps by McLaughlin in the USF game.
7. TB stinks it up in the game and knows he doesn't have the support of the team. He's done.
8. TS is called on to win the game because JM is suspended. McClellan is benched or "injured" in the game and Roydell actually works to help TS. The win is saved.
9. Either the OL didn't want TS as the starter thereafter or the OL was so porous it necessitated scrapping the offense that CNS/CTR wanted to run.
10. JM re-emerges as the only option for the remainder of the season and the rest is history. But it wasn't the plan for JM to be QB1.

The way I see last season is that players and coaches alike, CNS included, had some very selfish motives. The coaches likely picked up on that CNS was retiring from their agents. Everyone was pursuing their own agenda. Do what's necessary to get one last NC. Almost did it too. But the can was kicked down the road on who is the future QB1.

I like that synopsis a lot. Wonder what history would have looked like if TS had started the USF game instead of TB. Always had this feeling that CNS was trying to hide TS from the public.

A lot of stuff seemed to go off track the last 2-3 years. Really wish these guys had pulled it all together and won those last two games. That would have been the way to send CNS out.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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I like that synopsis a lot. Wonder what history would have looked like if TS had started the USF game instead of TB. Always had this feeling that CNS was trying to hide TS from the public.

A lot of stuff seemed to go off track the last 2-3 years. Really wish these guys had pulled it all together and won those last two games. That would have been the way to send CNS out.
And I think this was one of several signs Saban's time was starting to come to an end. As many have said, as people age they mellow and the "edge" they used to have to sustain their success is no longer there. So the natural progression is there begins to be cracks in the foundation that become visible. I know FBomb reported that with Goldung there was a lot of undisciplined behavior at practice yet Saban kept him employed for five years. The signs were there for several years.
 
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bamadwain

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Oct 8, 2018
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And I think this was one of several signs Saban's time was starting to come to an end. As many have said, as people age they mellow and the "edge" they used to have to sustain their success is no longer there. So the natural progression is there begins to be cracks in the foundation that become visible. I know FBomb reported that with Goldung there was a lot of undisciplined behavior at practice yet Saban kept him employed for five years. The signs were there for several years.
This, and Saban had no control over players no more with the NIL and transfer portal so his edge was gone a little
 

BamaMoon

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It's been asked by @davefrat and some others if CNS ever actually said OR strongly inferred "the team chose Jalen" this year.

I've spent quite a bit of time this morning reading some old threads, watching PCs and digging on Google and reading articles.

I haven't found one quote where CNS said it, even though I would have bet money that I thought he did. Now, I'll double down and say in years gone by CNS has said it, but this year about all I could find is him saying "Make me play you" (and that was fall camp QB comments from CNS).

Even after the USF debacle, he never said it (apparently), but I will say reading back through some of these things a few things became almost prophetic.

For instance, in a 56 page thread that started on Sept. 18, 2023 after the USF game when CNS announced JM would be the starter going forward, there was a lot of discussion about whether the team chose Jalen in the "private team meeting."

- Some of the ones who denied there was any conspiracy famously predicted "If he allowed the team to choose Jalen, this will be his last year."
- Some said he looked tired and should resign (I think a few of them got suspended)
- Many said NIL/portal issues would cause this to be his last year.
- Many said the last few years had caught up to him by not being able to hire good assistants, etc.
-Many laid it at Bob's feet for not developing a QB.

In hindsight, two things seem pretty obvious:

1. All the talk of the game changing and CNS getting more passive and looking tired was the truth.
2. No "side" won (did CNS let the team choose JM or not) and yet we all "lost" the greatest college football coach of all time.
 

davefrat

Hall of Fame
Jun 4, 2002
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It's been asked by @davefrat and some others if CNS ever actually said OR strongly inferred "the team chose Jalen" this year.

I've spent quite a bit of time this morning reading some old threads, watching PCs and digging on Google and reading articles.

I haven't found one quote where CNS said it, even though I would have bet money that I thought he did. Now, I'll double down and say in years gone by CNS has said it, but this year about all I could find is him saying "Make me play you" (and that was fall camp QB comments from CNS).

Even after the USF debacle, he never said it (apparently), but I will say reading back through some of these things a few things became almost prophetic.

For instance, in a 56 page thread that started on Sept. 18, 2023 after the USF game when CNS announced JM would be the starter going forward, there was a lot of discussion about whether the team chose Jalen in the "private team meeting."

- Some of the ones who denied there was any conspiracy famously predicted "If he allowed the team to choose Jalen, this will be his last year."
- Some said he looked tired and should resign (I think a few of them got suspended)
- Many said NIL/portal issues would cause this to be his last year.
- Many said the last few years had caught up to him by not being able to hire good assistants, etc.
-Many laid it at Bob's feet for not developing a QB.

In hindsight, two things seem pretty obvious:

1. All the talk of the game changing and CNS getting more passive and looking tired was the truth.
2. No "side" won (did CNS let the team choose JM or not) and yet we all "lost" the greatest college football coach of all time.
I'm just glad that Saban went out as king of the SEC.

There was a time not so long ago when winning the SEC was as big a deal as winning the "mythical" national championship.

And it's still the second biggest prize in college football...at least for now.
 

Cruloc

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Sep 1, 2019
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I'm just glad that Saban went out as king of the SEC.

There was a time not so long ago when winning the SEC was as big a deal as winning the "mythical" national championship.

And it's still the second biggest prize in college football...at least for now.
We won the SEC despite all the warts.....and kept UGA from 3-peating. They likely 3 peat if we don't beat them.
 

crimsonaudio

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We do know there had become some childish behavior in the locker room of helmet throwing and out bursts because it's been reported that is having to be cleaned up now by the new staff. There was smoke and no doubt some fire. We just don't know how hot or high the flames were.
Yeah, I'm likely in the minority, but I think Saban really should have retired a year or two ago. In retrospect, those of us who were vocal about how sloppy the teams looked were seeing the end coming in slo-mo.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Yeah, I'm likely in the minority, but I think Saban really should have retired a year or two ago. In retrospect, those of us who were vocal about how sloppy the teams looked were seeing the end coming in slo-mo.
Yeah, the signs and cracks were there and not that hard to see.
 

AWRTR

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Oct 18, 2022
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It was a slow, but steady erosion.

It was obvious to anyone paying close attention.

I don't think the game passed him by as much as the culture of the sport became untenable for him.
I think you hit on the truth. His thought process of how to develop players and help them build value no longer worked for this version of college football. Which is much more instant gratification instead of delayed gratification of working hard and waiting your turn sometimes, and then cashing in when you are a finished product. I think of players like Reuben Foster and Eddie Lacy that had to wait behind some studs and develop before they could shine and then cash their NFL checks.
 

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