Alec Baldwin case...

[92tide]

The New Mexico law on involuntary manslaughter refers to “without due caution” which seems applicable to both. It’s a fourth degree felony. Fwiw Texas doesn’t differentiate between voluntary and involuntary, and it’s a second degree felony here.

ianal, but i still don't see how he is culpable.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

ianal, but i still don't see how he is culpable.

As I've said, I think his only exposure is as producer and that would be civil, not criminal. I think the local DA feels that she has to charge someone...

 

[TexasBama]

ianal, but i still don't see how he is culpable.

I guess the due caution part is their basis

 

[92tide]

I guess the due caution part is their basis

yeah, but it seems like a "reasonable" expectation by an actor that a prop they are using and has been through a strict protocol, to be just that and not require extra caution.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I guess the due caution part is their basis

Aye, there's the rub. An actor is not supposed to be a firearms expert and know how to recheck the armorer's actions. I expect them to be absolutely smothered with testimony from armorers and actors, the former having prepared clean firearms and the latter testified that they have accepted firearms and pulled the trigger, trusting that the armorer said there would be a no-fire or a click. I think I've read that they've reached a civil settlement and have resumed filming...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

To me, the major mystery is what the hell live rounds were ever doing on the set in the first place. Anyone who's ever handled blank rounds and live rounds can tell the difference in an instant, and an armorer couldn't tell the difference? Gimme a break...

 

[crimsonaudio]

yeah, but it seems like a "reasonable" expectation by an actor that a prop they are using and has been through a strict protocol, to be just that and not require extra caution.

Really should be that way, but if I were in his position, I'd recheck everything myself.

That said, I've no idea what the laws are in CA - it may well be that if AB had opened the wheel to check the ammo that the armorer would have automatically had to re-check the weapon before it was cleared to shoot.

 

[92tide]

Really should be that way, but if I were in his position, I'd recheck everything myself.

That said, I've no idea what the laws are in CA - it may well be that if AB had opened the wheel to check the ammo that the armorer would have automatically had to re-check the weapon before it was cleared to shoot.

same here. i think the film was being shot in new mexico.

i don't know the laws, but it seems to me like the scenario in your second sentence would still result in the responsibility being on the armorer and not the actor.

 

[crimsonaudio]

same here. i think the film was being shot in new mexico.

i don't know the laws, but it seems to me like the scenario in your second sentence would still result in the responsibility being on the armorer and not the actor.

That's my point - depending on the rules in place AB might not have been able to check the weapon.

 

[2003TIDE]

That's my point - depending on the rules in place AB might not have been able to check the weapon.

Most people are gun dumb. So not really sure he'd even know what he was looking at in regards to a blank vs a live round. It would be like me asking the pilot if he minded if I walked around the plane and did an inspection before the flight after he already preformed the preflight inspection.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Most people are gun dumb.

I've guess this is AB - his staunch denial that he never pulled the trigger despite the fact it cannot discharge without the trigger unlocking the hammer meant he is either an outright liar or ignorant about firearms.

 

[2003TIDE]

I've guess this is AB

I can go dig around for the article, but I'm 99.9% sure he said this himself.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Part of the problem is lack of basic gun competence/safety. Actors have to work on their lines, their fight choreography and who knows what else. Why not spend a day or two going over how to properly handle guns? This feels like a good, common sense solution.

 

[2003TIDE]

Part of the problem is lack of basic gun competence/safety. Actors have to work on their lines, their fight choreography and who knows what else. Why not spend a day or two going over how to properly handle guns? This feels like a good, common sense solution.

Not really sure a day or two is enough to cover all types of firearms. Also, you don't want non-experts rechecking experts work. There are a whole set of controls already in place that is supposed to catch this. Adding someone with a single day of training as some sort of last chance to catch an issue doesn't fix anything IMO.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Not really sure a day or two is enough to cover all types of firearms. Also, you don't want non-experts rechecking experts work. There is a whole set of controls already in place that is supposed to catch this. Adding someone with a single day of training as some sort of last chance to catch an issue doesn't fix anything IMO.

Probably not, but people typically demand that SOMETHING be done in these situations. If there's one thing we are great at in this country, it's pretending to do something when in reality, we aren't really doing anything. If the mob isn't placated in some way, it's still an unresolved issue. (Yeah, I know how cynical this sounds, but I don't think I'm wrong.)

 

[2003TIDE]

Probably not, but people typically demand that SOMETHING be done in these situations. If there's one thing we are great at in this country, it's pretending to do something when in reality, we aren't really doing anything. If the mob isn't placated in some way, it's still an unresolved issue. (Yeah, I know how cynical this sounds, but I don't think I'm wrong.)

I think the answer is educate everyone on the process and controls not guns themselves. They have experts on set for that. Trying to give everyone a boot camp in firearm safety isn't the answer. If everyone followed the processes and controls, this wouldn't have happened.

 

[CrimsonTheory]

To me, the major mystery is what the hell live rounds were ever doing on the set in the first place. Anyone who's ever handled blank rounds and live rounds can tell the difference in an instant, and an armorer couldn't tell the difference? Gimme a break...

That and my other question would be, why was he pointing the gun (prop gun or otherwise) anywhere near a person?

 

[92tide]

That and my other question would be, why was he pointing the gun (prop gun or otherwise) anywhere near a person?

i am not positive, but i think i read he was pointing the gun at the camera and she was behind it

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The armorer CNN had on indicated that he would do a recheck, if an actor attempted to check his work. He also demonstrated that if the trigger were already depressed by Baldwin and the single action hammer were pulled back and then released, as Baldwin said he did, the gun would fire. (He did a dry fire.) If the gun were pointed at the camera (and camera girl), it was because the director ordered it...

 

[Bazza]

From some of the reporting.....there are some details that the public is not yet aware of yet.

Having to do with disregard for overall safety on the set.

Remember early on it was reported that union crews walked off the set, due to concerns over safety protocol being ignored, or some such.

I mention this because the decision to file charges was probably based on more than just AB firing the gun. It was other things that we are not aware of.

Many are saying, including AB's representative, that he will fight the charges. If so and it indeed goes to court, we will know more when discovery is filed, I guess....