Apartment Building Collapsed Near Miami

dayhiker

FB|BB Moderator
Dec 8, 2000
8,215
2,337
337
Pell City, AL
John, can you expound on this following paragraph? I understand the elevator shaft, but the beam differences seem awfully inconsistent to have been placed only for wind resistance...
No, that's reasonable. They're using rectangular columns and beams to make a moment frame. The rectangular columns are there to add stiffness in the direction of the moment frame.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: UAH

UAH

All-American
Nov 27, 2017
2,998
3,056
187
A quick non technical comment concerning Miami in general. I have flown in and out of their ridiculously outdated airport arriving from the north and departing south over the keys. I was amazed on first arrival to traverse the miles upon miles of Everglades to eventually arrive at this small spit of land that is Miami. This comes to mind as I view this disaster. All of this appears to be temporary at best including all of the keys. Mankind continues to build and live in locations such as Miami and the cliffs of California where nature can shake them off like a dog shakes off fleas. What are the odds of disasters far greater than this one as the Atlantic continues to rise and warm.
 

dayhiker

FB|BB Moderator
Dec 8, 2000
8,215
2,337
337
Pell City, AL
A quick non technical comment concerning Miami in general. I have flown in and out of their ridiculously outdated airport arriving from the north and departing south over the keys. I was amazed on first arrival to traverse the miles upon miles of Everglades to eventually arrive at this small spit of land that is Miami. This comes to mind as I view this disaster. All of this appears to be temporary at best including all of the keys. Mankind continues to build and live in locations such as Miami and the cliffs of California where nature can shake them off like a dog shakes off fleas. What are the odds of disasters far greater than this one as the Atlantic continues to rise and warm.
I don't see how someone could make the argument that this had to do with global warming, though I see people are already doing that. Global warming didn't cause them to not maintain their building.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: TexasBama

TexasBama

Hall of Fame
Jan 15, 2000
20,112
18,672
287
64
Houston, Texas USA
I read this from my phone on applenews and now when I go to the link, it wants me to subscribe. I wish I could find a clean link. This is the best article I've seen yet.

Basically, they jump on punching shear, talk about how the settlement isn't likely a cause, talk about low risk of sinkholes, talk about how they pool deck wasn't likely to pull the building down, then wait, maybe that could have been a bigger factor than they first thought. The difference compared to my ramblings was, on each item, they showed images explaining why they were thinking about it the way they were. One that was really telling is 3 columns, still vertical in the collapsed deck area. The columns were there, but the slab wasn't, meaning likely shear failure. One person interviewed said their initial thought was that even with the water damage, they still didn't see it failing like it did. I guess I'm saying all of this because I feel like I've been all over the place on this and have jumped around quite a bit. I was beginning to feel like it seemed like I was just throwing crap on the wall to see what stuck. I was glad to read an article that at least had people going through the same thought process as I was and that maybe I wasn't crazy after all.
It opens ok now on my desktop.

It appears that were it not for the elevator shafts, the whole thing would have come down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TIDE-HSV

UAH

All-American
Nov 27, 2017
2,998
3,056
187
I don't see how someone could make the argument that this had to do with global warming, though I see people are already doing that. Global warming didn't cause them to not maintain their building.
I didn't suggest that. My point is that it is foolhardy at best to build high rises on reclaimed mangrove swamps. Just saw a report today on entire sea coast complexes in California that have been condemned and one by one falling off of cliffs. How much has the market for hi-rise condos in Miami declined in the last week?
 

TexasBama

Hall of Fame
Jan 15, 2000
20,112
18,672
287
64
Houston, Texas USA
A quick non technical comment concerning Miami in general. I have flown in and out of their ridiculously outdated airport arriving from the north and departing south over the keys. I was amazed on first arrival to traverse the miles upon miles of Everglades to eventually arrive at this small spit of land that is Miami. This comes to mind as I view this disaster. All of this appears to be temporary at best including all of the keys. Mankind continues to build and live in locations such as Miami and the cliffs of California where nature can shake them off like a dog shakes off fleas. What are the odds of disasters far greater than this one as the Atlantic continues to rise and warm.
Hah. Miami airport.

Where is gate C4? Next to Gate B12. :)
 

dayhiker

FB|BB Moderator
Dec 8, 2000
8,215
2,337
337
Pell City, AL
I didn't suggest that. My point is that it is foolhardy at best to build high rises on reclaimed mangrove swamps. Just saw a report today on entire sea coast complexes in California that have been condemned and one by one falling off of cliffs. How much has the market for hi-rise condos in Miami declined in the last week?
I don't recall who, but a governmental official has already been quoted connecting this to global warming. That's what I was referring to.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: UAH

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
55,925
38,387
362
crimsonaudio.net
I don't see how someone could make the argument that this had to do with global warming, though I see people are already doing that. Global warming didn't cause them to not maintain their building.
I suspect the argument will be rising sea levels somehow impacted the foundation, though I don't think that's the case with this building.

And to be fair, it's baseless arguments like that which hurt the fight against GW.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
80,105
29,927
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
I suspect the argument will be rising sea levels somehow impacted the foundation, though I don't think that's the case with this building.

And to be fair, it's baseless arguments like that which hurt the fight against GW.
Thing is, rising sea level will obviously be a problem for these condominiums. It's just a matter of when...
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
80,105
29,927
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Sea level rise there over the life of the building is 3.5-4.0 inches per NOAA’s trend data
The national academy of science says that's accelerating and the rate will double by 2050. Anyone depending on the NOAA prediction is whistling past the graveyard. In addition to the mean sea level, there's what it's doing to the water table inland...
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: UAH

TexasBama

Hall of Fame
Jan 15, 2000
20,112
18,672
287
64
Houston, Texas USA
The national academy of science says that's accelerating and the rate will double by 2050. Anyone depending on the NOAA prediction is whistling past the graveyard. In addition to the mean sea level, there's what it's doing to the water table inland...
Of course. Miami is at risk for future sea level more than any big city in the world. .Future sea level rise will not affect the building that collapsed, however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dayhiker

Elefantman

Hall of Fame
Sep 18, 2007
5,329
2,341
187
R Can Saw
Paywall article from WSJ

Here are the cliff notes:

A 2018 engineering report on the south tower released by the town alleged the building had a flaw that inhibited proper drainage, allowing water to pool near its base.

“The main issue with this building structure is that the entrance drive/pool deck/planter waterproofing is laid on a flat structure. Since the reinforced concrete slab is not sloped to drain, the water sits on the waterproofing until it evaporates. This is a major error,”
“The observable damage such as in the garage has gotten significantly worse since the initial inspection. When you can visually see the concrete spalling (cracking), that means that the rebar holding it together is rusting and deteriorating beneath the surface,” she wrote.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: UAH and TexasBama

crimsonaudio

Administrator
Staff member
Sep 9, 2002
55,925
38,387
362
crimsonaudio.net
Thing is, rising sea level will obviously be a problem for these condominiums. It's just a matter of when...
Completely understand and agree, just saying that if it didn't have any effect in this case (and the experts seem to be saying it didn't), then it undermines the argument to make the false claim.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dayhiker

BamaBuc

All-American
May 12, 2003
2,556
113
82
St. Pete Beach, FL
crimson-fan.neocities.org
The national academy of science says that's accelerating and the rate will double by 2050. Anyone depending on the NOAA prediction is whistling past the graveyard. In addition to the mean sea level, there's what it's doing to the water table inland...
By 2050 Tuscaloosa will be Beach Front Property! Of course I don't think many of us will be around to see it!
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
80,105
29,927
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Completely understand and agree, just saying that if it didn't have any effect in this case (and the experts seem to be saying it didn't), then it undermines the argument to make the false claim.
I wasn't clear. I thought the discussion had broadened out to all these sand spit superstructures. I was meaning that, eventually, all of them would be in trouble...
 
  • Like
Reactions: crimsonaudio

New Posts

Latest threads

Shop the TideFans.shop !


Your purchase through our TideFans.shop links helps support the site! Thanks!