JessN: Auburn wrap-up: A loss of systemic proportions

[SkullDuckery]

The defense up 31 points minus the last second field goal.

They had great field position because of we don’t have a stud punter that can boom it 60 yard like the prior punter did.

We had defensive players out of position all game.

Between injuries and players leaving for the draft it has finally reared it’s ugly head.

But that does not excuse the lack of leadership on this team, that’s the issue. Has been for two years.

 

[2003TIDE]

The lack of discipline that characterized this year's team is a direct result of youth, inexperience and the impatience that comes with... youth and inexperience.

This is a copout excuse. Plenty of upperclassmen were getting in on the action this season and tonight with the penalties.

 

[bvandegraff]

I'd like to hear more about the "internal discipline" issues Jess referenced. Are the current players less receptive to coaching, not concerned about accountability/consequences, or something else? Is the lack of depth due to injuries forcing coaches to keep using players that are less coachable?

Back when Miami had it going, former players would stay in constant contact with current players and stay on their cases about playing at their accustomed level. Is that something missing at Bama? Do we need former players to use more than just Twitter to support/motivate current players?

Just wondering if something has changed in the culture of the program....

 

[TideEngineer08]

31 points were too much to give up to this trash offense.

I don't know if I agree that the system is the issue just yet. Not the Xs and Os part. But there is definitely something broken. At this point I lean more towards a lack of disciplined play, on both sides of the ball. And after reading JessN's article, what sticks out to me mostly is that it seems the accountability has been lost somewhere in the last few seasons.

 

[BAMAVILLE]

I have to disagree and say it's not the system. its the execution of the system and that's not 100% on coach. Regardless of how much you coach it or practice it, you still in the end have to execute ... we didn't. I truly believe we would have won if we did, but we didn't. This is the unfortunate result of not executing like we needed to. Hate the result for this team but it's not an indictment to say the system is flawed.

 

[Cruloc]

We are lacking what we have been accustomed to. That Bama factor. Seems it stems from multiple things all converging in 2019.

1. Coaching staff turnover.
2. Misses on recruits in positions of need.
3. Early NFL departures.
4. Long list of injuries to key players.
5. A DC that's dealing with his own inexperience and the prior mentioned issues.
6. No progression from the young guys on D.
7. A lack of accountability as Jess said.
8. A sense of entitlement.
9. A lack of discipline stemming from a lack of leadership amongst the players.

I'm sure I've missed something, lots of issues can be fixed, others might not be so controllable.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I've been highly disappointed all season in the defense. From the frustration of having a lot of young inexperienced players, to them not getting better as the year went on, to some of the worst display of fundamentals I've ever witnessed from a Saban coached team, to the onslaught of injuries that began before the season and just continued to mount, to the sinking feeling we had a DC that was in over his head. All of these things reared their heads all season in one way or the other. But ultimately, they all contributed to the crappy defense we witnessed all year. Since everyone is taking the opportunity to give their .02 on how to fix it. I'll give it a go.

I'm not saying there doesn't need to be some tweaks to Saban's scheme. But most defensive schemes don't work very well when the DL struggles (all damn year) to get off blocks and get penetration. Scheme doesn't put itself in the right defensive alignment during games, nor does it miss routine open field tackles behind the LOS that allows the opposition to extend drives. Every missed open field tackle behind the LOS on 3rd and 6 doesn't happen in a vacuum. It lays the foundation and course of how the next series of plays happen. It dictates the course of the game. Of the things Saban needs to "fix". It's finding coaches (himself in included) who can get these ultra talented kids back to doing the basics. Again, I'm not saying Saban's scheme doesn't need to be looked at and critiqued. But someone name me one defensive scheme that flourishes with players who can't make open field tackles, can't get off blocks at the LOS, can't get any penetration, doesn't have the discipline to stay in your area when everybody in America can see it's your job to keep contain on the QB read option. Hell, I could go on and on at the fundamental breakdowns that I see are a much bigger problem than scheme.

Games/championships are won in the offseason and when the season starts Monday through Thursday. I see a huge lack of fundamentals and mental discipline on this team which (as Jess points out) points to coaching. This to me is where Saban needs to do the most critiquing and re-evaluating. Since we're talking about coaching, I think Golding (sp?) is in over his head. I'm not a football X's and O's guru but too many times this season (LSU game comes to mind) he called the wrong defensive alignment. That's not scheme, that's a DC picking the wrong alignment within the scheme. You could tell by the pre-snap alignment we were about to get burnt. He was constantly getting out smarted by the opposing OC.

Seeing the rules are what they are in college football. We are going to be hard pressed to find a scheme that fixes the majority of the problems that plagued us this season. If I've heard it once I've heard it a million times by former players and coaches who sit on these broadcast panels. The game of football is now played in space. Open field tackling, beating blocks, taking the appropriate angles are at a premium. That's fundamentals, not scheme and we down right sucked at them this season.

I'll end on a positive. We are still bringing in elite talent. We've got championship talent coming back and coming in. So I don't think it's time to start giving up winning titles and continuing to be dominant. I have no doubt Saban will finish out this season, take a day off to go kick the hell out of the ducks at Lake Burton. Then begin the evaluating and "fixing". Mack Jones (IMO) proved he can be a championship quarterback. My god at how better he got the more he played. He will have an entire offseason to get better. I think we are still a title contender next season. I really do.

 

[imaloyalone]

I think there are several factors to consider in addressing where we're at. First, I don't think Saban's defensive scheme is necessarily the issue - we rarely run a traditional 3-4 defense any longer. In fact, Danielson said at one point today that we had been in nickel or dime the entire game. Second, I do think personnel in effective defenses is more important than ever. Today, we're living in time when teams have dedicated groups of people to track things... to break down opponents... and to explore matchups. Like someone observed about our ILB's earlier, they would have been great fits in pre-2013 units but are poor fits in our current style... and when that's the case you can bet they'll get exposed by every team on the schedule (even the weaker ones).

Three other factors seem to be playing a role in today's game also. One is transfers and early departures. It's not easy to manage a team, from recruiting or coaching, with things changing literally on a dime. As an example, consider what needs we have for this year's recruiting class at WR... will we lose one or two or three... and will someone that was counted upon to be a contributor leave for greener pastures. It's harder to recruit to "needs" than ever before - and depth is difficult to build when guys up and leave due to lack of PT. Two is a direct result of one.... when you have less depth you can't practice like you play. What I mean by that is that you can't practice as "physical" when you fear you'll lose your best players. If you've noticed, our tackling (especially open-field) this year has been atrocious. I'll guarantee you that some of that is due to the fact that we backed off after losing three starters early in the season. There was a day/time when you could expect Bama's LB's and DB's would single-handedly get a guy to the ground on contact - that's not the case with this team. Three is part of our society... preoccupation with self. It's harder and harder to get players to buy into a "team concept" - especially when a lot of college expectations revolve around getting prepared for the league. Part of Saban's philosophy is "team" - no one is greater than the whole. Yet, it's obvious that you can't get 85 players to fully buy into that idea - and if you run off all the players who don't buy into it my second factor becomes a bigger factor (you further hurt your depth).

We can talk all day long about the issues - whether they're symptoms or true causes. However, it falls upon Saban to find a solution to these things - IF (and that's a big IF) they actually can be fixed. It may be that this is what college football has evolved to - and until the NCAA becomes serious about making defense part of the game again via rule changes nothing can really be done to permanently solve them. My gut says that Saban has reached a point where these changes are more than he's willing to tackle (pun intended). In some ways, this isn't the "football" he relishes, enjoys, and believes is best for the game - and his legacy is cemented. None of us want to really consider this option, but a day is coming when he'll hang it up - and I think these are the kinds of things that make Lake Burton look far more appealing. JMO

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Good points across the board, Jess.

Lack of leadership and discipline, misses in recruiting (including character/mental fortitude), coaching, and schemes - these are all problems. The defense simply has to get faster. There's no way around it. The scheme has to change. It's time to adapt or get left behind.

I'll never say we need to be a Baylor, yet their players are lighter, more flexible, and very fast. They have team speed. They make us look slow.
NOW...
Watching our game today I saw that we are still arm tackling. Back to fundamentals, wrap em up.

What I wish is that Coach Saban would be flexible enough to study successful teams Defenses, see what we like about it, and how we could benefit from change.
Teams have studied the Saban Defense and now design plays to exploit our weakness.
It's time we tried something other teams haven't spent years working plays around or Defense.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

What do you do? Hope for better luck, better coaching, and to be wrong. Stating that Coach is at a crossroads where either the game passes him by or he once again adapts to it is not out of bounds.

This year is not the first time defenses at Alabama have been torched. Much better defenses have been torched, so it's not just injury luck or poor coaching. The scheme itself is an issue against modern offenses.

If Saban chooses to stick with his defense we will see more of these types of games. We will probably see them in any case, but adapting gives that side of the ball a better chance.

I think this is very true. It appears to me that small cracks in the defense started to appear as early as the Hugh Freeze era @ Ole Miss. It seemed like Freeze found something to exploit via the pass that other teams began to notice. We had a very good defense in 2016 but as I mentioned in another thread there were 3 different QB's that threw for over 400 yards against us that season. While Auburn didn't really beat us through the air I think if we would have gotten to the playoff then either Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields would have torched our defense.

It seems like the fan base is split on whether the problem is the scheme or youth and injuries but if we leave everything status quo with the scheme we'll have to wait until we have an experienced defense that remains relatively healthy to be 100% sure, but who knows when that happens?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think this is very true. It appears to me that small cracks in the defense started to appear as early as the Hugh Freeze era @ Ole Miss. It seemed like Freeze found something to exploit via the pass that other teams began to notice. We had a very good defense in 2016 but as I mentioned in another thread there were 3 different QB's that threw for over 400 yards against us that season. While Auburn didn't really beat us through the air I think if we would have gotten to the playoff then either Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields would have torched our defense.

It seems like the fan base is split on whether the problem is the scheme or youth and injuries but if we leave everything status quo with the scheme we'll have to wait until we have an experienced defense that remains relatively healthy to be 100% sure, but who knows when that happens?

Everybody is talking about needing to change schemes. What scheme is out there that is currently slowing down these offenses and which teams are running them? From what I've seen, all defenses are getting pretty much torched when they face an offense that has a good quarterback, WR's and RB's. They maybe getting torched in different ways, but they're still getting the scoreboard lit up on them.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

Everybody is talking about needing to change schemes. What scheme is out there that is currently slowing down these offenses and which teams are running them? From what I've seen, all defenses are getting pretty much torched when they face an offense that has a good quarterback, WR's and RB's. They maybe getting torched in different ways, but they're still getting the scoreboard lit up on them.

I don't know what scheme slows them down but the Big 12 has been getting ridiculed for several years about having games with basketball scores simply because nobody cares about defense in the Big 12. The theory was that those schools couldn't compete in conferences that know how to play defense, yet here we are in the SEC, where we have supposedly better minds on defense and we're suddenly having the same basketball scores.

 

[REBELZED]

Everybody is talking about needing to change schemes. What scheme is out there that is currently slowing down these offenses and which teams are running them? From what I've seen, all defenses are getting pretty much torched when they face an offense that has a good quarterback, WR's and RB's. They maybe getting torched in different ways, but they're still getting the scoreboard lit up on them.

You hit the nail on the head. Offenses have evolved, players have evolved, and the rules have evolved to where the days of 2011 are long gone. The barn defense that has been vaunted as one of the best in the land all season got torched for 38 points and 500+ yards by a backup QB tonight.

Even the top rated defense in the country (Ohio State, which has yet to play an offense with a pulse IMO) just gave up 27 points and almost 400 yards to the mid-30's ranked Michigan offense. As much as we hate it, the game is just turning into basketball on grass.

 

[81usaf92]

Everybody is talking about needing to change schemes. What scheme is out there that is currently slowing down these offenses and which teams are running them? From what I've seen, all defenses are getting pretty much torched when they face an offense that has a good quarterback, WR's and RB's. They maybe getting torched in different ways, but they're still getting the scoreboard lit up on them.

Georgia and Ohio St are the best at defending it.

 

[REBELZED]

Georgia and Ohio St are the best at defending it.

See my post above. Ohio State just gave up 27 points and nearly 400 yards to a middling UM offense.

I haven't verified it, but I also saw somebody say that Georgia's defense only gave up 8 fewer yards against the barn than ours. Are those defenses really the end all be all?

 

[Power Eye]

We gave up 34 points tonight on defense, which should not have happened against that offense. However, we gave them some short field position situations and “only” gave up 354 yards, which isn’t terrible in today’s game.

Perhaps the system is broken, I don’t know enough to say one way or another. I do know that we are thin up front and our dominate defenses weren’t. We also don’t tackle well, and that seems to be both on coaching and talent.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Georgia and Ohio St are the best at defending it.

Doesn't Kirby run a defensive scheme exactly like Saban's?

 

[RammerJammer14]

I have to say that I expected this post from Jess. He does this every time Saban loses to Auburn. The game has passed him by. He just can't win these games anymore. Then Saban wins another championship or two. Then it happens again and the same response.

You want to run Saban off? Every other team in America would applaud you for your stupidity.

The notion that this game was not lost because of the two pick sixes is absurd. That represents a 21 point swing in a 3 point game. They clearly decided the game. It is possible that Alabama could have overcome them, but that didn't happen, so they cost you the game.

Is the undisciplined play something that needs to be urgently addressed? Absolutely. Personally I think that the nicer Saban is part of the problem there. The meaner Saban would never have allowed those players to do those things and keep their job. But Saban is adapting to the times and becoming more of a player's coach.

Does the defense need help? Absolutely. But just 2 years ago, with Pruitt at DC, the defense worked beautifully, even with massive injuries to overcome. So the defense is not the problem. It is the players and coaches trying to implement it.

So, go ahead, run Saban off. Maybe you'll find someone better in 30 years or so.

Yeah I will say, I remember a very similar take in 2013, 2014, and 2017. I’m not sold that the game has passed Saban by. Our defense this year is bad. But who has one of the top 5 defenses in the country? Kirby Smart at Georgia. Wonder where he learned his defense from...

Alabama was ranked 10th in scoring defense coming into today’s game. The mighty Auburn defense was ranked....11th.

Who out there is doing great on defense against teams with a pulse? Really?

Our defensive performance this year has been pathetic by our standards. I’m not sure that means the 3-4 is an outdated defense that needs to be relegated to the dustbin of history. One DC and two years ago, it worked great...

I am not saying that there isn’t something Saban can change. I am saying that I trust him to make some good corrections, much like post 2014. That was a “1970” Bryant moment on defense too.

 

[81usaf92]

Doesn't Kirby run a defensive scheme exactly like Saban's?

Kirby hasn’t missed on game-ready talent as much as Saban lately is the difference. Saban’s defense isn’t an easy defense to pick up. It usually takes years to start to get really good at it. The difference between 2010’s defense and 2011’s probably illustrates it best.

I think we have missed on some key guys at some of these positions that we really wanted and needed and had to go through Plan B and C many times. Georgia and LSU have really hurt our recruiting these past few years.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

We'll have to see what LSU does against Kirby's defense in the SECCG. Georgia had a good defense a couple of years ago and Oklahoma scored 48 against it.