Avoid Memphis - Confederate statues coming down

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,113
6,674
423
Huntsville, AL,USA
Does it really surprise you when this state is rabid with Lost Cause revisionists and Trump supporters? While Braun’s true allegiance to the Nazi party has always been a question, you can’t tell me Huntsville couldn’t come up with a better person to name the arena after.
Former Nazi or not, he was responsible, along with Senator Sparkman, for the resurrection of Huntsville. You'll find few around here, at least among those who are knowledgeable, who begrudge the naming. He established his bona fides as an anti segregationist later...
 

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
13,171
1,195
178
I see the milk of forgiveness doesn't exactly run through this forum. He was a former Nazi. Lyndon Johnson was a former segregationist...
My comment was meant to be a joke. While the depth of his allegiance to the Nazis is somewhat murky, I know he did a lot for this country with his involvement in the space race. It is certainly a good thing we got him before the Russians could.

I don’t have a problem with the arena being named for him due to his contributions to Huntsville.

I didn’t know about his anti-segregationist views. That is good to hear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

81usaf92

Hall of Fame
Apr 26, 2008
14,555
3,153
178
Sylacauga,AL
The big picture is that there isn't one. Extreme north Alabama and eastern Tennessee put as many soldiers in the Union Army as in gray. NC voted in an anti-secession government during the war. My family wasn't atypical at all...
I really dont see how that relates to my post. My issue is there is no place for statues and monuments that celebrate the CSA just because there is this skewed view of what the confederacy REALLY fought for.

I think it is pretty clear that the political reason that the CSA went to war vs the Federal government was SLAVERY. Not many historians fall for the Lost Cause bull on that issue.

Again the individual reasons for those actually fighting in the war doesnt always line up with the political reasons that drove the region to war.
 

81usaf92

Hall of Fame
Apr 26, 2008
14,555
3,153
178
Sylacauga,AL
I see the milk of forgiveness doesn't exactly run through this forum. He was a former Nazi. Lyndon Johnson was a former segregationist...
Yeah and George Wallace’s name is on every Community college in Alabama because of the one really great thing he did, but there are a far better names that could have gone on there instead of one that would spark controversy.
 
Last edited:

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,113
6,674
423
Huntsville, AL,USA
Yeah and George Wallace’s name is on every Community college in Alabama because of the one really great thing he did, but there are a far better names that could have gone on there instead of one that would spark controversy.
I think your controversy's supporters can just about be counted on one hand...
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,113
6,674
423
Huntsville, AL,USA
Maybe, but it’s whatever to me personally. But they knew it could be controversial and did it anyway. If the folks in Huntsville want that then so be it.
I don't know where on earth you're getting this controversy thing. There was none in HSV. I'm sure there was some somewhere, just on the basis of his background, which apparently cannot be forgiven, no matter what he did later to amend for it. But have it your way...
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,113
6,674
423
Huntsville, AL,USA
He was already known as a anti-segregation leader and was heavily supported by the black community. Maybe you should do some more reading up on him...
 

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
13,171
1,195
178
He was already known as a anti-segregation leader and was heavily supported by the black community. Maybe you should do some more reading up on him...
I googled him and his relationship to civil rights and the first hit I got was this.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/chasing-moon-von-braun-record-on-civil-rights/

A very interesting story and a side of him I was unaware of. Thank you for pointing me towards this. I can honestly say I learned something of value today. Looks like he did what he could to make his adopted home state a better place.

I was ten when he died and the civil rights movement and the space race are before my time. He seems to be a forgotten figure in history.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

81usaf92

Hall of Fame
Apr 26, 2008
14,555
3,153
178
Sylacauga,AL
He was already known as a anti-segregation leader and was heavily supported by the black community. Maybe you should do some more reading up on him...
Again I don’t care if Huntsville forgave him and only want to highlight the good things. If they feel that way then fine let them have it. I support the democratic process to keep and remove controversial monument. If they don’t feel that it’s controversial then cool beans.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,113
6,674
423
Huntsville, AL,USA
For those who believe the matter was simply between slavery and no slavery and didn't involve the Union, this might make interesting reading. Warning, the article starts to repeat towards the end . When it does, stop reading. There's nothing new from that point...

Decatur Daily
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
17,551
1,875
173
Hooterville, Vir.
Im down to play a little....
Cool.

Okay 2 things. 1) Many in North Alabama fought for the Union because they believed in Andrew Jackson's beliefs about the Union and
True. They also were tied to trade (the two most prolific north Alabama commodities were mules and corn) facilitated by the Tennessee River, which flowed south into Alabama from Tennessee and then flowed back north to Tennessee. Secession placed a tariff barrier between north Alabama farmers and their Tennessee and Kentucky customers.
2) Again you are missing the point of the old saying "Rich Man's war, Poor man's fight"
I'm not really sure what your point is here. Plenty of poor men voted to leave the Union.And plenty of rich men served in the army.
I don't see how anyone with a straight face can say that Slavery wasnt the main political reason that Alabama seceded from the Union.
I do not believe many Republicans were advocating abolition in 1860. Certainly Lincoln wasn't.
Lincoln's First Inaugural Address said:
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
If you can, then present it.
Since you asked.
Republican senators Henry Wilson of Massachusetts and William Seward (Republican front-runner for president in 1860) knew about John Brown's plans to commit an act of terror at Harper's Ferry 17 months before it happened, yet they told no one. Seward did not object to the plan, he only “expressed regret that he had been told.” (New York Herald, October 27, 1859).
Barclay Coppoc, one of John Brown's raiders, escaped from Harper's Ferry in October 1859. His brother Edwin was captured and gave his brother up, telling his captors that Barclay was probably back home in Iowa. When Virginia asked for his arrest and extradition to Virginia for trial for murder, treason and insurrection, the Republican governor of Iowa refused, and even sent a messenger to Coppoc warning his that Virginia was seeking his arrest and extradition. The Staunton (Va.) Vindicator condemned Kirkwood’s entire handling of this case. “The conduct of the Governor of Iowa … is remarkable for its duplicity, and shows to us of the South, what we have to expect from northern officials, elevated to power by the sectional party of the day.” (Staunton, Va. Vindicator, February 17, 1860.) In other words, this is what a Republican in executive office means: Republicans will use their office to protect from prosecution criminals as long as they are antislavery criminals, which does not bode well for states with lots a slaves, whoever owns them.
The very next week, the Alabama legislature issued a declaration. "anti-slavery agitation persistently continued in the non-slaveholding States of this Union, for more than a third of a century, marked at every stage of its progress by contempt for the obligations of law and the sanctity of compacts [such as the provision of the return of fugitives from justice who have escaped into neighboring states of the Union], evincing a deadly hostility to the rights and institutions of the Southern people, and a settled purpose to effect their overthrow even by the subversion of the Constitution, and at the hazard of violence and bloodshed." (Smith, History and Debates of the Convention of the People of Alabama, p. 9). Alabama did not issue secession declaration in January 1861, but it did lay out its grievances in February 1860.

Otherwise I firmly believe the CSA were slavers fighting the federal government."

If your whole point is that the troops fighting had weren't fighting on the issues of slavery then okay, but its like trying to defend Germans for fighting with the Nazis. Sure false pretenses, nationalism, certain circumstances, states rights, and etc play a part of an individuals belief. But at the end of the day the Army of Northern Virginia and the Wehrmact were armies fighting for evil regimes, and the world is a better place because both armies were defeated. Point is the Big picture is that the Civil War was a war that revolved around the institution of slavery because the political entities in power have universally cited it as the main and/or contributing reason of secession.



This one:
Article IV of the same Constitution says that Congress shall guarantee to each state of the Union a republican form of government. If Trump declared that California was a bunch of traitors and sent the army to overthrow the state government by force would you be okay with that?

That was the proximate cause of Virginia's withdrawal from the Union. Virginia said that was unconstitutional, antidemocratic and they would not take part in such an act.
 
Last edited:

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
17,551
1,875
173
Hooterville, Vir.
My point was that of two GGFs (don't know about the other two), one fought for the union and owned no slaves. One belonged to the Union League, owned slaves and lost everything. You can't say either fought for slavery. They obviously didn't. They fought for the Union. I'll dig up my GGF who was a Union League's diary from 1867. It's quite obvious what he was losing everything for...
I think that would be very interesting. I'd love to read that.
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
17,551
1,875
173
Hooterville, Vir.
the free state of winston gave twitler the highest percentage of votes of any alabama county in 2016 - 89.48%

on google street view, you can see the confederate flag flying at free state lumber. i guess the english/lit department at haleyville high stopped covering irony
I'm not laughing at your native county, but that is funny. "Free State Lumber" with a Confederate flag in front of it? Rich.
 

92tide

TideFans Legend
May 9, 2000
41,050
6,619
273
50
East Point, Ga, USA
I'm not laughing at your native county, but that is funny. "Free State Lumber" with a Confederate flag in front of it? Rich.
actually, my native county is dallas county, tx., but dbf won't let me claim my native status. i was a big city carpetbagger when i moved to winston in the middle of my first grade year.

i laughed my ass off at it when driving by the first time, i had to do a double take to make sure i had seen it correctly. i was surprised that it was on the street view.
 

Latest threads

TideFansStore.com - Get your gear!

Purchases made through our TideFansStore.com link may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.