Bama running game fixes!

[kyallie]

Lengthening the field is a good thing, I will not argue that. What I will argue is that this is being over used as a reason for our lack of production compared to last year. First I think everyone should remember that what we saw last year out of Mark and Trent doesn't happen all the time. We were able to see an unreal display last year from those two, but I digress. Our O line blew people off of the ball on every snap last year in the run game. We aren't doing that this year. I don't know if it's teams scheming against us, I don't know if it's a lack of ability or maybe it's a tell or something but we aren't getting the same push up front. Now the fashionable answer this year is to blame it on the 8 or 9 in the box due to the lack of long passes to lengthen the field. "GMac is no deep threat so they load the box" etc... If that is the case someone please explain to me "The Drive" last year against SC. Not one single person in the stadium ever thought Mark Ingram was going to throw the ball. Yet we marched down the field to score. There weren't just 8 in the box there were 10 in the box and they couldn't stop us. We blew them back off the line. Where was the deep threat there? There wasn't one and we still crammed the ball down their throats. BTW, that wasn't the only drive last year that we basically did that on.

Easy, that was last year!!!

 

[Dallas4Bama]

Easy, that was last year!!!

Cute, but it still doesn't answer the question about a fundamental problem we are having in the running game.

Is it because of the loss of Johnson and Davis?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Lengthening the field is a good thing, I will not argue that. What I will argue is that this is being over used as a reason for our lack of production compared to last year. First I think everyone should remember that what we saw last year out of Mark and Trent doesn't happen all the time. We were able to see an unreal display last year from those two, but I digress. Our O line blew people off of the ball on every snap last year in the run game. We aren't doing that this year. I don't know if it's teams scheming against us, I don't know if it's a lack of ability or maybe it's a tell or something but we aren't getting the same push up front. Now the fashionable answer this year is to blame it on the 8 or 9 in the box due to the lack of long passes to lengthen the field. "GMac is no deep threat so they load the box" etc... If that is the case someone please explain to me "The Drive" last year against SC. Not one single person in the stadium ever thought Mark Ingram was going to throw the ball. Yet we marched down the field to score. There weren't just 8 in the box there were 10 in the box and they couldn't stop us. We blew them back off the line. Where was the deep threat there? There wasn't one and we still crammed the ball down their throats. BTW, that wasn't the only drive last year that we basically did that on.

I've hearing - and it appears so - that Carpenter has been playing nicked up. That's one reason we've been running right as much as we have. The other reason is that DJ is a natural run-blocker. In fact, he was so good at it that moving him to guard was seriously considered, particularly since he was having footwork problems with his pass blocking (which has really improved). AM, OTOH is a natural pass blocker, but he's just not in the class with DJ as a run blocker. I tend to think that it's a combination of factors - Greg has lost some of his downfield confidence, we could get better separation and, finally, people have made some progress in diagnosing and countering our offense. The bye week will give an opportunity to remedy some of our weaknesses, and I will take any win over UT, no matter how ugly...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Cute, but it still doesn't answer the question about a fundamental problem we are having in the running game.

Is it because of the loss of Johnson and Davis?

That's obviously part of it also...

 

[Dallas4Bama]

I've hearing - and it appears so - that Carpenter has been playing nicked up. That's one reason we've been running right as much as we have. The other reason is that DJ is a natural run-blocker. In fact, he was so good at it that moving him to guard was seriously considered, particularly since he was having footwork problems with his pass blocking (which has really improved). AM, OTOH is a natural pass blocker, but he's just not in the class with DJ as a run blocker. I tend to think that it's a combination of factors - Greg has lost some of his downfield confidence, we could get better separation and, finally, people have made some progress in diagnosing and countering our offense. The bye week will give an opportunity to remedy some of our weaknesses, and I will take any win over UT, no matter how ugly...

Thanks Earle. I think often it gets lost on most of us that the O-linemen usually have a natural tendency and they have to develop the other part of their game. AM did seem to have some troubles on Sat though with the run. Although I wasn't sitting as high in the stands as I normally like so that I am able to see the blocking from a higher angle. Carpenter being nicked explains a lot about our new found tendency to run right. My neighbor and I were talking about that Sat night and we were confused by it.

As for Greg I agree he seems to have lost some confidence down field. As I said in another thread I think some of that is from less confidence in his defense this year also.

I agree on UT and I am afraid it could be very ugly and create more of a "The sky is falling" mentality than we are already seeing.

 

[kyallie]

I've hearing - and it appears so - that Carpenter has been playing nicked up. That's one reason we've been running right as much as we have. The other reason is that DJ is a natural run-blocker. In fact, he was so good at it that moving him to guard was seriously considered, particularly since he was having footwork problems with his pass blocking (which has really improved). AM, OTOH is a natural pass blocker, but he's just not in the class with DJ as a run blocker. I tend to think that it's a combination of factors - Greg has lost some of his downfield confidence, we could get better separation and, finally, people have made some progress in diagnosing and countering our offense. The bye week will give an opportunity to remedy some of our weaknesses, and I will take any win over UT, no matter how ugly...

Thanks Earle. I think often it gets lost on most of us that the O-linemen usually have a natural tendency and they have to develop the other part of their game. AM did seem to have some troubles on Sat though with the run. Although I wasn't sitting as high in the stands as I normally like so that I am able to see the blocking from a higher angle. Carpenter being nicked explains a lot about our new found tendency to run right. My neighbor and I were talking about that Sat night and we were confused by it.

As for Greg I agree he seems to have lost some confidence down field. As I said in another thread I think some of that is from less confidence in his defense this year also.

I agree on UT and I am afraid it could be very ugly and create more of a "The sky is falling" mentality than we are already seeing.

I agree with these most salient views. Thank you!

 

[GMacFan]

The curious thing about OL play is that Fluker is a great run blocker, I think he's just as good if not better than Drew Davis. Warmack has been great also, at least every time I've paid close attention. Johnson was an All-American but Warmack has done a great job filling in IMO. So what exactly is the problem? I can't exactly put my finger on it. Maybe it's poor tight end play.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

The curious thing about OL play is that Fluker is a great run blocker, I think he's just as good if not better than Drew Davis. Warmack has been great also, at least every time I've paid close attention. Johnson was an All-American but Warmack has done a great job filling in IMO. So what exactly is the problem? I can't exactly put my finger on it. Maybe it's poor tight end play.

I don't know about the tight end, but has anyone noticed the number of times the defensive end of LB has come around the back of a play up the middle and caught Trent or Mark from behind? I didn't notice that a lot before Sat night. Of course everything looks different from the stands and I could have been missing it before due to camera angles.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[kyallie]

I don't know about the tight end, but has anyone noticed the number of times the defensive end of LB has come around the back of a play up the middle and caught Trent or Mark from behind? I didn't notice that a lot before Sat night. Of course everything looks different from the stands and I could have been missing it before due to camera angles.
Posted via Mobile Device

I saw the same thing on TV.

 

[REBELZED]

I don't know about the tight end, but has anyone noticed the number of times the defensive end of LB has come around the back of a play up the middle and caught Trent or Mark from behind? I didn't notice that a lot before Sat night. Of course everything looks different from the stands and I could have been missing it before due to camera angles.
Posted via Mobile Device

This is probably due again to the O line not opening up holes. Ingram and Richardson will hit the holes as hard and as fast as anyone I've seen, but the holes have to BE THERE for them to hit. If they have to hesitate and wait for the crease, that gives defenders plenty of time to make a play from behind...

 

[Highway59]

I'm not a guru as for as schemes and ways of attacking an opponent in a such a way as exposing an weakness. Just your average joe armchair quarterback. But with our offensive line being beat up a little, I’m looking forward to seeing them in few weeks hopefully rested and healthy. Could be said of whole team I would suspect. At several positions we have guys that are in first year of SEC competition, either redshirt freshman or true freshman. This isn’t high school anymore. Fatigue, physical and mental are appearing to grab hold of some of players. We just got through playing a second team that was coming off couple of weeks of rest and preparations just for us. Houston Nutt had two whole weeks to scheme and get his team rested and prepared for a game that would have been a huge amount of salve on a season that has been bitter disappointment for the Rebels. And we took their best shot, and to be honest, to me it was never in doubt. But with South Carolina, even with their “perfect” game, with a couple of plays made by us, we win that game. Can’t point to a couple of plays in Ole Miss game that could have turned it their way. If we can get thru this week against Tenn without injuries piling up anymore, and get the win of course, I believe our running game will be back to normal for LSwho. Spring will be back in step, hopefully Gmac and receivers will get a few kinks in their game worked out that will loosen up things at line of scrimmage. I just hate the Hat and crew had their open date opposite of ours. But it will still be a great benefit to team to catch its breath for stretch run.:BigA:

 

[graydogg85]

FWIW, I think this is a schematic problem.

Our offense is often referred to as a conventional pro-set offense or a multiple offense, but these labels are not totally accurate. What we actually run is a one-back offense with multiple sets. The sets, formations and looks we show actually are closer to what you'd see from a traditional one-back spread passing offense than the pro-set offense. The running game is similar to the old Joe Gibbs/Washington Redskins power offense with its single-back sets and zone blocking schemes.

One of the best things about a one-back power offense is that - when properly executed - it allows you to run the football effectively against stacked defensive fronts. Each blocker occupies a zone, and even against overloaded fronts there tends to be a double-teamed defender or two and the tailback simply has to read the correct seam and hit it hard. This is why we've been effective running the football in the past, even against stacked boxes. It helps to have guys like Ingram and Richardson back there who tend to break a lot of tackles, as well.

What's changed this season? Opposing defensive coordinators aren't "stacking the box" anymore, at least not in the conventional sense. They're utilizing run blitzes. This is how you beat a one-back rushing offense. It's a numbers/speed game, rather than a size/brute force game. One of the problems with a one-back set is that you don't always have a fullback or a lead blocker. If the opposing defense puts a cornerback close to the line of scrimmage with the intent of rushing the tailback, and the tailback gets a handoff 4-5 yards deep with no lead blocker, that's a losing battle for the offense every time. The defensive back has the speed to blow past the tackles and tight ends. Even if the DB doesn't tackle the tailback outright, he's slowed the play down considerably.

A good defensive scheme will run blitz and squat on the short passing routes against us, which is exactly what South Carolina did.

How do we exploit this? As others have said, you've got to throw downfield. It's similar to the stacked box principle. The opposing coordinator has to respect the downfield passing game. Last season, we hit enough deep play action throws to keep the defense moderately honest. We haven't done enough of that this season, and we're seeing all these run blitzes as a result.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

One of the best things about a one-back power offense is that - when properly executed - it allows you to run the football effectively against stacked defensive fronts. Each blocker occupies a zone, and even against overloaded fronts there tends to be a double-teamed defender or two and the tailback simply has to read the correct seam and hit it hard. This is why we've been effective running the football in the past, even against stacked boxes. It helps to have guys like Ingram and Richardson back there who tend to break a lot of tackles, as well.

What's changed this season? Opposing defensive coordinators aren't "stacking the box" anymore, at least not in the conventional sense. They're utilizing run blitzes. This is how you beat a one-back rushing offense. It's a numbers/speed game, rather than a size/brute force game. One of the problems with a one-back set is that you don't always have a fullback or a lead blocker. If the opposing defense puts a cornerback close to the line of scrimmage with the intent of rushing the tailback, and the tailback gets a handoff 4-5 yards deep with no lead blocker, that's a losing battle for the offense every time. The defensive back has the speed to blow past the tackles and tight ends. Even if the DB doesn't tackle the tailback outright, he's slowed the play down considerably.

Very good post. It explains a lot in terms of our ability to run the ball against a loaded box last year successfully last year versus now. Earle and others had pointed to defenses figuring out how to play us and this gives me the how.

 

[CapstoneTider]

1. Saban is responsible for everything on the team, including the running game. I know he will address the issue appropriately.
2. This is a forum. I do get tired of some of the comments from people that prove they have never played football.
3. I don’t hide my head to the problem. I have questioned at times why the team is struggling. Again, I just get tired of some of the posts I see.

You're going to have to get a new name if you want anyone to believe you

 

[trenda]

FWIW, I think this is a schematic problem.

Our offense is often referred to as a conventional pro-set offense or a multiple offense, but these labels are not totally accurate. What we actually run is a one-back offense with multiple sets. The sets, formations and looks we show actually are closer to what you'd see from a traditional one-back spread passing offense than the pro-set offense. The running game is similar to the old Joe Gibbs/Washington Redskins power offense with its single-back sets and zone blocking schemes.

One of the best things about a one-back power offense is that - when properly executed - it allows you to run the football effectively against stacked defensive fronts. Each blocker occupies a zone, and even against overloaded fronts there tends to be a double-teamed defender or two and the tailback simply has to read the correct seam and hit it hard. This is why we've been effective running the football in the past, even against stacked boxes. It helps to have guys like Ingram and Richardson back there who tend to break a lot of tackles, as well.

What's changed this season? Opposing defensive coordinators aren't "stacking the box" anymore, at least not in the conventional sense. They're utilizing run blitzes. This is how you beat a one-back rushing offense. It's a numbers/speed game, rather than a size/brute force game. One of the problems with a one-back set is that you don't always have a fullback or a lead blocker. If the opposing defense puts a cornerback close to the line of scrimmage with the intent of rushing the tailback, and the tailback gets a handoff 4-5 yards deep with no lead blocker, that's a losing battle for the offense every time. The defensive back has the speed to blow past the tackles and tight ends. Even if the DB doesn't tackle the tailback outright, he's slowed the play down considerably.

A good defensive scheme will run blitz and squat on the short passing routes against us, which is exactly what South Carolina did.

How do we exploit this? As others have said, you've got to throw downfield. It's similar to the stacked box principle. The opposing coordinator has to respect the downfield passing game. Last season, we hit enough deep play action throws to keep the defense moderately honest. We haven't done enough of that this season, and we're seeing all these run blitzes as a result.

Nice analysis! Agree.

 

[CapstoneTider]

I agree, explained nicely.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to switch television viewing angles interactively between what we see now(QB) and line, and the receivers down the field? Or better yet have a split screen stacked with the two so you can see the entire action? One of the advantages of being at the game is seeing the entire field. I can't tell how many receivers are open on a deep pass many times.

I would love to have two shots stacked on my greedy large television that I sit three feet away from when watching the game.

One day we'll look back at our one view and wonder how we watched the game that way, or could judge a quarterback effectively.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to switch television viewing angles interactively between what we see now(QB) and line, and the receivers down the field? Or better yet have a split screen stacked with the two so you can see the entire action? One of the advantages of being at the game is seeing the entire field. I can't tell how many receivers are open on a deep pass many times.

I would love to have two shots stacked on my greedy large television that I sit three feet away from when watching the game.

One day we'll look back at our one view and wonder how we watched the game that way, or could judge a quarterback effectively.

True, that will be nice. Didn't they have that for a super bowl a year or two ago?

 

[RTR91]

I agree, explained nicely.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to switch television viewing angles interactively between what we see now(QB) and line, and the receivers down the field? Or better yet have a split screen stacked with the two so you can see the entire action? One of the advantages of being at the game is seeing the entire field. I can't tell how many receivers are open on a deep pass many times.

I would love to have two shots stacked on my greedy large television that I sit three feet away from when watching the game.

One day we'll look back at our one view and wonder how we watched the game that way, or could judge a quarterback effectively.

The best thing for that would use endzone cameras instead of sideline ones. Maybe as stations start doing more, they will have multiple channels per game so the viewer decides the angle.

 

[CapstoneTider]

I hope so, it would seem that they would have the bandwidth. And interactive TV is gaining ground. You could even put the receivers in a box at the top left if you choose that. If you had it on say ESPN AND ESPN2 maybe you could join the channels.

Dalas4Bama,
I can't remember that Super Bowl, but I have missed a couple in the past 6 years for various reasons. I would have loved to seen it happen.

 

[BAMARICH]

FWIW, I think this is a schematic problem.

Our offense is often referred to as a conventional pro-set offense or a multiple offense, but these labels are not totally accurate. What we actually run is a one-back offense with multiple sets. The sets, formations and looks we show actually are closer to what you'd see from a traditional one-back spread passing offense than the pro-set offense. The running game is similar to the old Joe Gibbs/Washington Redskins power offense with its single-back sets and zone blocking schemes.

One of the best things about a one-back power offense is that - when properly executed - it allows you to run the football effectively against stacked defensive fronts. Each blocker occupies a zone, and even against overloaded fronts there tends to be a double-teamed defender or two and the tailback simply has to read the correct seam and hit it hard. This is why we've been effective running the football in the past, even against stacked boxes. It helps to have guys like Ingram and Richardson back there who tend to break a lot of tackles, as well.

What's changed this season? Opposing defensive coordinators aren't "stacking the box" anymore, at least not in the conventional sense. They're utilizing run blitzes. This is how you beat a one-back rushing offense. It's a numbers/speed game, rather than a size/brute force game. One of the problems with a one-back set is that you don't always have a fullback or a lead blocker. If the opposing defense puts a cornerback close to the line of scrimmage with the intent of rushing the tailback, and the tailback gets a handoff 4-5 yards deep with no lead blocker, that's a losing battle for the offense every time. The defensive back has the speed to blow past the tackles and tight ends. Even if the DB doesn't tackle the tailback outright, he's slowed the play down considerably.

A good defensive scheme will run blitz and squat on the short passing routes against us, which is exactly what South Carolina did.

How do we exploit this? As others have said, you've got to throw downfield. It's similar to the stacked box principle. The opposing coordinator has to respect the downfield passing game. Last season, we hit enough deep play action throws to keep the defense moderately honest. We haven't done enough of that this season, and we're seeing all these run blitzes as a result.

Terrific post... helps explain the x's and o's.