BREAKING Britney Griner has been traded for Viktor Bout

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Bamabuzzard

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Bodhisattva

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Making no deal is better than making a bad deal. Putin threatens to walk away from the deal and Biden caves while the fanboys and fangirls make excuses. This deal is retarded-squirrel-level dumb. The Saudi prince gets away with murder. Putin gets his Merchant of Death back whose purpose in life is to kill Americans. We get back a privileged, domestic abuser, American-hating, druggie, moron. The squirrel would have done better.
 

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For all his faults… Clinton probably was the last great president in dealing with hostages. After the Battle of Mogadishu he sent a clear message to Addid… release Durant and return the bodies of our soldiers or else we will level your crap hole of a city more than it already is.

Sure there is fair trade, but this (Griner) clearly wasn’t. And to suggest otherwise is just playing politics and ignoring the embarrassment we just suffered from a man that is getting his butt kicked on the international stage.
 

Bamabuzzard

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For all his faults… Clinton probably was the last great president in dealing with hostages. After the Battle of Mogadishu he sent a clear message to Addid… release Durant and return the bodies of our soldiers or else we will level your crap hole of a city more than it already is.

Sure there is fair trade, but this (Griner) clearly wasn’t. And to suggest otherwise is just playing politics and ignoring the embarrassment we just suffered from a man that is getting his butt kicked on the international stage.
Clinton could also sell igloos in Florida he was such a good salesman and I can only imagine how good of a negotiator he was when trying to get his way. I'd love to hire him and Jerry Jones as foreign policy negotiators and I promise you we would have come back with both Griner and Whelan and some ownership in Russian pipeline.
 

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We get back a privileged, domestic abuser, American-hating, druggie, moron.
Where is this coming from?

Privileged has zero to do with anything.

The domestic abuse charges have been dismissed. Hell, I've been accused of domestic abuse.

American-hating???????????? What the hell, man. This is just lame. She was on Team USA in the Olympics and helped the USA win a gold medal.

As for a druggie, that's pretty harsh for a gram of hash oil.

Moron?????? C'mon, Bodhi.

Griner was a criminal for having the less than a gram of hash oil. I wonder how many people in this thread are also criminals? She was an American citizen being wrongfully detained in a Russian prison. Do you have to be a model citizen to rate getting help from your country when you are being wrongfully detained?
 

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Here's the question no one is addressing.

How do we get Griner home if the only trade Putin will make is for Boot? And, if that is indeed the only trade Putin will make, do we just leave Griner in the Russian prison for the next nine years?
 
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Bodhisattva

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Where is this coming from?

Privileged has zero to do with anything.

The domestic abuse charges have been dismissed. Hell, I've been accused of domestic abuse.

American-hating???????????? What the hell, man. This is just lame. She was on Team USA in the Olympics and helped the USA win a gold medal.

As for a druggie, that's pretty harsh for a gram of hash oil.

Moron?????? C'mon, Bodhi.

Griner was a criminal for having the less than a gram of hash oil. I wonder how many people in this thread are also criminals? She was an American citizen being wrongfully detained in a Russian prison. Do you have to be a model citizen to rate getting help from your country when you are being wrongfully detained?
You don't think a professional athlete is privileged? One who gets paid a lot of money playing a sport that has no fans? She got the POTUS to bail her dumbarse out. She is the definition of privileged.

A lot of privileged athletes get domestic charges against them dropped. Wouldn't be the first time fame and money solves that problem.

She is highly critical of the US. Everything is racist/sexist/homophobic/blah blah blah. As has been mentioned before, I wonder if she's self-aware enough to have perspective now and appreciate what she has. The US is not perfect, but is far closer to perfect than most other places in the world.

She violated the drug laws of another country. She was not wrongfully detained. She admitted to breaking the law. Is she a pawn? Of course. Is she also a moron? Absolutely.
 
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JDCrimson

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There is more to this prisoner trade imo. They would not make such a one sided trade unless coerced or left with no choice. Somehow given the parties involved I wonder if the Trump compromised classified documents are involved here. Trump set Biden up for the embarrassing withdrawal from Afghanistan. It just seems like something similar is afoot here...
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Here's the question no one is addressing.

How do we get Griner home if the only trade Putin will make is for Boot? And, if that is indeed the only trade Putin will make, do we just leave Griner in the Russian prison for the next nine years?
I think it comes down to this, what are "we" willing to do or give up (as a country/government) to get her back? What value does the country place on her? We got our answer, we're willing to give up an arms dealer/terrorist (or whatever he is) who was a part of dealings to literally kill Americans. The government felt releasing him back into society was worth getting her home. While Whelan has been imprisoned there for four years. What are we willing to do or give up for him?
 
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Bodhisattva

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There is more to this prisoner trade imo. They would not make such a one sided trade unless coerced or left with no choice. Somehow given the parties involved I wonder if the Trump compromised classified documents are involved here. Trump set Biden up for the embarrassing withdrawal from Afghanistan. It just seems like something similar is afoot here...
Could be. I'm hoping there is an agreement that ends the war in Ukraine. Not now, but soon so Putin can save face. And hopefully Whelan gets released soon as well as part of the deal. But, if this is only a one for one, good God what a cluster!
 
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Bodhisattva

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I think it comes down to this, what are "we" willing to do or give up (as a country/government) to get her back? What value does the country place on her? We got our answer, we're willing to give up an arms dealer/terrorist (or whatever he is) who was a part of dealings to literally kill Americans. The government felt releasing him back into society was worth getting her home. While Whelan has been imprisoned there for four years. What are we willing to do or give up for him?
A lot of this compassion is misplaced. What would drive you to do something personally should not be the same driver that creates foreign policy. You can gamble with your own money and freedom, but don't do that on someone else's behalf - in this case, every American who gets on an international flight for the foreseeable future.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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There is more to this prisoner trade imo. They would not make such a one sided trade unless coerced or left with no choice. Somehow given the parties involved I wonder if the Trump compromised classified documents are involved here. Trump set Biden up for the embarrassing withdrawal from Afghanistan. It just seems like something similar is afoot here...
I surely hope so because it would be a slap in Whelan and his family's faces if he ended up staying over there and dying in a Russian prison. According to Whelan, the conditions there are such that he isn't sure he can actually make it through the full sentence.
 

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You don't think a professional athlete is privileged? One who gets paid a lot of money playing a sport that has no fans? She got the POTUS to bail her dumbarse out. She is the definition of privileged.

A lot of privileged athletes get domestic charges against them dropped. Wouldn't be the first time fame and money solves that problem.
Where did I say Griner was not privileged?
She is highly critical of the US. Everything is racist/sexist/homophobic/blah blah blah. As has been mentioned before, I wonder if she's self-aware enough to have perspective now and appreciate what she has. The US is not perfect, but is far closer to perfect than most other places in the world.
The US is racist, sexist, and homophobic. I don’t know what blah,blah, blah is referring to. None of that makes Griner “America-hating.”
Of course. Is she also a moron? Absolutely
Too harsh. She made a mistake. We've all made them. That doesn't make us all morons. IMO, a moron is someone who consistently makes stupid decisions. We don't have enough information to make that accusation.
 

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WASHINGTON — Month after month, as American diplomats pushed for the release of Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan from Russian prisons, they received the same, infuriating answer: If you want both prisoners, we want Vadim Krasikov as part of the deal.
Mr. Krasikov is an assassin who murdered a Chechen fighter in a park in Berlin in broad daylight in 2019, a brazen killing that the German authorities say was committed at the behest of Russia’s intelligence services. Convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany, Mr. Krasikov was not in U.S. custody to be traded to Russia.
It was, the Americans thought, hardly a viable request for a swap that would include Ms. Griner, a W.N.B.A. star, and Mr. Whelan, a former U.S. Marine, who were being detained on what Biden administration officials considered trumped-up charges. American officials felt out their German counterparts to see if they might agree and were hardly surprised when Berlin refused to release what they considered a cold killer. Trying to be creative, the Americans even explored some sort of three-way deal that would give the Germans something in return, but that did not go anywhere, either.
Privately, some of the administration’s diplomats concluded that the insistence on freeing Mr. Krasikov was a stalling tactic by President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, who they believed was determined not to deliver any kind of political victory to President Biden before the midterm elections in the United States last month. Others believed the Russians were serious and saw it as a face-saving way for Moscow’s security services to give up Mr. Whelan, whom they convicted of espionage despite flat denials from Washington that he was a spy.

Either way, how Mr. Biden came to agree to a swap that freed Ms. Griner but not Mr. Whelan was a tale of feints and intrigue carried out through secret negotiations and public posturing, all against the backdrop of a brutal war in which American-armed Ukrainians were battling Russian invaders. At the end of the day, according to senior U.S. officials directly involved in the negotiations who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe delicate diplomacy, it left the president with the unpalatable choice of liberating one American while leaving another behind.
 
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