Can Our democratic (small d) Form of Government Survive?

[NationalTitles18]

Election workers departing in droves after "partisan rancor" in 2020

"These conspiracy theorists are in it for the long haul," said said Barb Byrum, clerk of Ingham County, Michigan.

www.axios.com

I am having serious doubts.

 

[Go Bama]

It would be interesting to know if more of those leaving were Democrats or Republicans. I suspect it's about the same. Regardless, who is going to take the job if it endangers their life or threatens them with jail time just because the losing side thinks the election was rigged?

 

[B1GTide]

It would be interesting to know if more of those leaving were Democrats or Republicans. I suspect it's about the same. Regardless, who is going to take the job if it endangers their life or threatens them with jail time just because the losing side GOP thinks the election was rigged?

FIFY

 

[NationalTitles18]

The election workers were the bulwark against anti-democratic forces in this last election. I am concerned they will be replaced by partisan hacks who care nothing for free and fair elections. If the process becomes corrupted like that then it's over.

 

[92tide]

e.t.t.d

everything trump touches dies.

 

[92tide]

here is one take on it.

Don't Worry White People, Democracy Ain't Going Nowhere

There's no reason to fear the loss of democracy, bipartisanship and American exceptionalism.

www.theroot.com

 

[Go Bama]

Related

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-are-gnawing-at-the-foundations-of-americas-free-and-fair-elections/2021/06/13/3f40ffa0-cacd-11eb-a11b-6c6191ccd599_story.html

After his decisive loss, Trump tried to undermine that integrity, threatening and cajoling state officials to back up his lie of having won. Shamefully, many Republicans in Congress and state capitals went along and continue to go along with his corrosive claim of election fraud. But the officials who mattered last fall — in Georgia and Michigan, Pennsylvania and Arizona — put duty over party and refused to bend.


Now, anti-democrats are working to improve their odds next time around. They are trying to replace the honest officials with peddlers of Trump’s lie, as in Georgia, where Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger faces a primary challenge from Rep. Jody Hice.
They are subjecting election officials to criminal penalties for actions they may take in the course of performing their duties. Often the supposed offenses are ill-defined; the effect will be to discourage honest people from taking these often-thankless jobs while giving state judges and legislators the power to make mischief.

The Texas election law that was temporarily derailed by a Democratic legislators’ walkout May 31 — but which Republican Gov. Greg Abbott has vowed to put back on track — creates 14 scenarios under which election officials could find themselves in legal jeopardy. The language is “so expansive and unclear that it could effectively freeze every local election official or worker in their tracks when faced with any need to adapt their practices to local circumstances or to emergency situations,” the Protect Democracy report notes.

 

[GCtidefan]

Much truth in these words:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

― Alexander Fraser Tytler

 

[TexasBama]

I think the US Senate is the biggest threat to democracy. Not so much the 60 vote thing, but the fact that by around 2050 half the population will be represented by about 16 Senators.

 

[B1GTide]

Much truth in these words:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

― Alexander Fraser Tytler

LOL - this is a stupid quote brought up any time the GOP is losing at anything. If America is slipping toward dictatorship it is because of the GOP, racism, sexism and corporate greed, not because of some sort of "largesse" which does not exist for any but the most wealthy.

It is a con, man. Someone is stealing your cheese, but it isn't who you think it is.

 

[B1GTide]

I think the US Senate is the biggest threat to democracy. Not so much the 60 vote thing, but the fact that by around 2050 half the population will be represented by about 16 Senators.

That is exactly what it was designed to do and why America was never a democracy at all.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Much truth in these words:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

― Alexander Fraser Tytler

And yet, in past democracies of whatever form they only disappeared when those in power shucked aside democratic norms in order to retain and consolidate their own power. In Greece it was Spartan authoritarian dominance followed by the rise of King Phillip II. In Rome it was corruption in the Senate and the power hungry Julius Caesar. Yes, Macedonia prospered, as did imperial Rome; but in both cases democracy ended or was fatally wounded from within first by those in power. In neither case did the greed of the common man cause the downfall, but rather the greed of the already powerful for more money and more power. Rinse and repeat and here we are again.

 

[GCtidefan]

"Those in power" are voted in.

 

[Bamaro]

I think the US Senate is the biggest threat to democracy. Not so much the 60 vote thing, but the fact that by around 2050 half the population will be represented by about 16 Senators.

The House and the Exec branch aren't very representative either.

 

[uafanataum]

"Those in power" are voted in.

Yes but with how our system is setup those in power may not actually be supported by a majority of voters.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The structural inequities designed into the Senate and Electoral College are there on purpose, placed there by the founders. The senators were selected by state legislatures until the 1913 and the 17th. The House was designed to also be non-representative to a degree. The minimum of one representative per state accomplishes that. However, I don't believe that they intended it to be as non-representative as it's become as a result of gerrymandering...

 

[crimsonaudio]

I think a democracy can exist long term, but it requires an educated voter, which we lack on a widespread basis.

I know ANY barrier to open voting is considered evil, but there are (seemingly lots of) people out there who literally have no idea what or who they are voting for. Heck, we have people voting who literally don't know how the government works, and/or cannot name the current (or last, etc) VP. And their vote counts as much as yours or mine.

Allowing anyone who can fog a mirror to vote means we have a largely politically-uneducated active voter base. And we end up where we are today.

But as I said above, ANY barrier to open voting is considered evil, so no, our democracy will not survive - ours will eventually fail.

 

[92tide]

I think a democracy can exist long term, but it requires an educated voter, which we lack on a widespread basis.

I know ANY barrier to open voting is considered evil, but there are (seemingly lots of) people out there who literally have no idea what or who they are voting for. Heck, we have people voting who literally don't know how the government works, and/or cannot name the current (or last, etc) VP. And their vote counts as much as yours or mine.

Allowing anyone who can fog a mirror to vote means we have a largely politically-uneducated active voter base. And we end up where we are today.

But as I said above, ANY barrier to open voting is considered evil, so no, our democracy will not survive - ours will eventually fail.

i'm not sure that you can say that where we are today wrt the health of our democracy is because of "politically-uneducated voters". that is a much too broad reason.

we are where we are today because of long-term strategies by the gop/religious right to; keep voting down in minority communities; to stack the deck in their favor by gaming the system; and systemic racism (leading to the ease with which they are able to conflate white nationalism/american heritage and christianity).

 

[NationalTitles18]

"Those in power" are voted in.

they are, which is why we are in this pickle when the voters won’t vote them out for fear of communism.

 

[Go Bama]

It's the job of the press to educate the public. We are where we are because Fox News and OANN are telling for truth what the right wingers want to hear. This misinformation campaign is the root of the problem. A LOT of people who are voting think they are very well educated. An example is the lady who sent me a venomous letter last week.