Cold War series

Tidewater

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A little late to the party here, but your diagnosis is on target. The problem is that no one has come up with a "cure" for the problem...pure capitalism is not...neither is pure socialism/communism. A mix seems to work but still has severe disparities...I guess that's the plight of human nature -- at bottom we all focus on self-interest.
Like Hawkeye said: "Greed, lust, and greed. The three basic human emotions."

Managed or moderated free enterprise seems most effective (and able to correct of abuses). That requires an electorate that is at least sort of paying attention and a ruling class that places the long-term good of the republic ahead of personal gain. Those are two really big caveats.
 

Tidewater

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It is my view that two of the greatest military officers this country has produced (Winfield Scott being the other). Both, incidentally, with Virginia roots.
An anecdote illustrates Marshall's character and personality.
In 1940, a subordinate told Marshall of a new "Frequency Modulating" radio that Connecticut state troopers were using to vector in patrol cars to crime scenes. Marshall called in the Army's Chief of the Signal Corps and asked him what he knew about these "FM" radios. The Chief said he knew about them, but was not pursuing the technology because "the Army Signal Corps had not developed it." The next day, that officer announced his retirement from the Army.
 
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UAH

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It is my view that two of the greatest military officers this country has produced (Winfield Scott being the other). Both, incidentally, with Virginia roots.
An anecdote illustrates Marshall's character and personality.
In 1940, a subordinate told Marshall of a new "Frequency Modulating" radio that Connecticut state troopers were using to vector in patrol cars to crime scenes. Marshall called in the Army's Chief of the Signal Corps and asked him what he knew about these "FM" radios. The Chief said he knew about them, but was not pursuing the technology because "the Army Signal Corps had not developed it." The next day, that officer announced his retirement from the Army.
As we have touched on previously I feel a need to mention Pershing in that list, Marshall's immediate predecessor. Understanding the lack of capability of the US Army and it's supply/logistics systems during the Spanish American War and what Pershing was able to accomplish in building a modern fighting force in Europe is a significant accomplishment. Marshall built upon that and also had the advantage of the experience of WWI and its aftermath as a guide as Chief of Staff and Secretary of State.
 

Its On A Slab

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Like Hawkeye said: "Greed, lust, and greed. The three basic human emotions."

Managed or moderated free enterprise seems most effective (and able to correct of abuses). That requires an electorate that is at least sort of paying attention and a ruling class that places the long-term good of the republic ahead of personal gain. Those are two really big caveats.
And the most laughable assumption amongst libertarian fanboys is that corporations will (and should) police themselves. Corporations are beholden to stockholders.

Free enterprise can (and does/should) co-exist with governmental oversight/regulations. Free enterprise can (and does/should) co-exist with at least a part of its core being in the public realm (fire dept, police, roads, and even public health).
 
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Tidewater

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And the most laughable assumption amongst libertarian fanboys is that corporations will (and should) police themselves. Corporations are beholden to stockholders.

Free enterprise can (and does/should) co-exist with governmental oversight/regulations. Free enterprise can (and does/should) co-exist with at least a part of its core being in the public realm (fire dept, police, roads, and even public health).
Exactly. that was the managed/moderated free enterprise thing I was getting at. I think a lot of corporations would like to externalize the costs of being in business, if allowed to do so. DuPont used to dump industrial waste into the Shenandoah River near my house. The state forced them to stop doing that. I think Somalia is probably the most libertarian country in the world, but I sure wouldn't want to live here, and not just because of the weather.
I prefer not to use the term "capitalism" because I feel it is playing the Marxoid game. If a small business owner invested his own savings to start business, then there is little "capitalism" going on here, but there is some free enterprise.
 

Tidewater

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I was unaware of just how invested the U.S. government was in supporting the Italian Christian Democrats and defeating the Italian Communist Party in the Italian elections of 1948.
The fact that the U.S. government asked Italian immigrants in the U.S. to write their families back in Italy encouraging them to defeat the Communists was also surprising. Can you imagine the U.S. government doing that today? Asking immigrants form Country X to write family members back in X and encouraging them to vote for party 1 and against Party 2?
 
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UAH

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And the most laughable assumption amongst libertarian fanboys is that corporations will (and should) police themselves. Corporations are beholden to stockholders.

Free enterprise can (and does/should) co-exist with governmental oversight/regulations. Free enterprise can (and does/should) co-exist with at least a part of its core being in the public realm (fire dept, police, roads, and even public health).
My impression is that greed among large publicly owned corporations has risen to practically obscene levels. I have attributed at least some of that to the fact that Microsoft was granted a "get out of jail free card" to continue to operate as a monopoly. The kind of margins they have been allowed to take over decades, without competition, essentially changed the playing field. Now major corporations seek to throw off their wealth creating manufacturing assets and invest in high margin annuity type enterprises such as insurance and services then strive to lock in customers for life. We only have to watch any sports program commercials on TV to see the lineup of insurance, cellular, brokerage and internet companies looking to garner a lifetime annuity from us.
 
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Tidewater

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As we have touched on previously I feel a need to mention Pershing in that list, Marshall's immediate predecessor. Understanding the lack of capability of the US Army and it's supply/logistics systems during the Spanish American War and what Pershing was able to accomplish in building a modern fighting force in Europe is a significant accomplishment. Marshall built upon that and also had the advantage of the experience of WWI and its aftermath as a guide as Chief of Staff and Secretary of State.
Pershing was another one. He did quite well getting the Americans ready to fight in the Great War. He also had the backing of the president in refusing to break up American units and parcel them out to the British and French sectors like the French wanted.
In the Great War, Marshall saw Pershing berating a subordinate officer unfairly based on incorrect information, and Marshall told his boss that he had been wrong, that the officer had not done what Pershing was berating him for having done. That takes some guts.
 
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Tidewater

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Okay, let's move on. Gentlemen, I give you: The Berlin Airlift.
Stalin was being an ass, but the USAF (and the RAF) came to the rescue.
As an obiter dicta, I had an Aussie subordinate in the late unpleasantness in Iraq and he always referred to Germans as "Boxheads." I never knew what he was talking about, but I think he must have had Mr. Doernberg (above) in mind.

So, what do you think. Was it worth it keeping Berlin free?
 
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Tidewater

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One cargo plane pilot in the video made a small parachute so he could drop a candy bar to the German kids who would hang out under the approach to Berlin-Tempelhof.
His commanding general saw it on the news and asked his commander what that was all about. The captain was not angry that the pilot had done it, he was just angry that he had not been told about it.
Some things in the military never change...
 
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B1GTide

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One cargo plane pilot in the video made a small parachute so he could drop a candy bar to the German kids who would hang out under the approach to Berlin-Tempelhof.
His commanding general saw it on the news and asked his commander what that was all about. The captain was not angry that the pilot had done it, he was just angry that he had not been told about it.
Some things in the military never change...
He wanted to take the credit for it, but he never would have taken the risk.
 

B1GTide

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Just watched the 4th episode - Not much of this was new to me, but most of it was all but forgotten.
 

Tidewater

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Just watched the 4th episode - Not much of this was new to me, but most of it was all but forgotten.
What surprised me was that the USAF was flying coal in sacks. I would have thought that something with a better seal would have been used.
Another thing that surprised me was that the Western Allies did not evacuate some Berliners, and thus reduce the supported population inside Berlin. Maybe they did.
 

B1GTide

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What surprised me was that the USAF was flying coal in sacks. I would have thought that something with a better seal would have been used.
Another thing that surprised me was that the Western Allies did not evacuate some Berliners, and thus reduce the supported population inside Berlin. Maybe they did.
Agreed on the coal. I always assumed that those who stayed did not want to leave.
 

TIDE-HSV

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What surprised me was that the USAF was flying coal in sacks. I would have thought that something with a better seal would have been used.
Another thing that surprised me was that the Western Allies did not evacuate some Berliners, and thus reduce the supported population inside Berlin. Maybe they did.
Although I was small, I remember it well. It was all that was in the news (which meant papers and radio). I don't remember any accounts of any number of departures to speak of. For one thing, the Berliners were/are a very stubborn people, strongly attached to their city. In the second place, I'm not sure logistics permitted it, unless they dead-headed back on the cargo planes, which weren't exactly set up like airliners. We used C-47s and the Brits Dakotas, basically the same plane. The planes were convoyed almost propeller to tail...
 

Tidewater

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Although I was small, I remember it well. It was all that was in the news (which meant papers and radio). I don't remember any accounts of any number of departures to speak of. For one thing, the Berliners were/are a very stubborn people, strongly attached to their city. In the second place, I'm not sure logistics permitted it, unless they dead-headed back on the cargo planes, which weren't exactly set up like airliners. We used C-47s and the Brits Dakotas, basically the same plane. The planes were convoyed almost propeller to tail...
The videos show a lot of C-54 Skymasters. They seem to have more cargo capacity than C-47, as venerable an airframe as that was.
 

Tidewater

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True, there were c-54s. As I said, none of them airliners...
Fair point.
Nowadays, cargo aircraft have folding "jump seats" that fold out of the way when the plane is rigged for max cargo. Not comfortable but they can be pressed into service.
The weirdest flight I ever had on a USAF aircraft was on a MC-130P (the in-flight refueling version of the C-130) with the fuel tanks removed, but no seats installed, so just a big cargo deck with o-rings in the floor. I, and my guys, sat on the floor and snap linked into the O-rings in the floor using a sling rope, a carabiner, and a couple of end of line bowlines. It felt weird, but we had something we needed to do and the MC-130P was the only way to get there.
 
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Tidewater

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And another thing that has stuck in my craw since my undergraduate days at Alabama.
The U.S. did not "cause the Cold War" by threatening the Soviets.
On VE day, the U.S. Army stood at 1.6M men in Germany, and 3 million in the European theater (Ziemke, pg. 320). By June 1946, that number stood at 337,000 (21% of the May 1945 number), and dropped from there. The U.S. could not demobilize fast enough. The U.S. was no threat to the Soviet whatsoever, and Adam Ulam, the Harvard author of one of my textbooks as a Bama undergrad, was full of crap. Only a moron or somebody selling something would make that argument.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Fair point.
Nowadays, cargo aircraft have folding "jump seats" that fold out of the way when the plane is rigged for max cargo. Not comfortable but they can be pressed into service.
The weirdest flight I ever had on a USAF aircraft was on a MC-130P (the in-flight refueling version of the C-130) with the fuel tanks removed, but no seats installed, so just a big cargo deck with o-rings in the floor. I, and my guys, sat on the floor and snap linked into the O-rings in the floor using a sling rope, a carabiner, and a couple of end of line bowlines. It felt weird, but we had something we needed to do and the MC-130P was the only way to get there.
I've only had a few Berliners for friends, but one close one. As I said above, I doubt seriously there was much demand, at that time, to get out. In fact, the last I looked, Berlin and Brandenburg was the fastest growing section of Germany, while the rest of old East Germany has hemorrhaged population to the west...
 

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