COVID-19 Vaccine Issues and New Poll

[NationalTitles18]

I heard that this AM and I was puzzled. Obviously, the "full dose" was miscalculated. But why on earth would a heavier dose actually depress the immune response? Just doesn't make sense...

That is odd. This one also had to be paused due to significant events during the trial (transverse myelitis).

 

[TIDE-HSV]

That is odd. This one also had to be paused due to significant events during the trial (transverse myelitis).

This one is a bit of covid virus inside an adenovirus vector. Dr. Jha, on NBC, speculated that the heavier initial dose may have excited an immune response to the vector itself, but he said it was just a guess...

 

[Bamaro]

Does obesity or morbid obesity count towards comorbidity?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Does obesity or morbid obesity count towards comorbidity?

It may be the single most important comorbidity...

 

[Bamaro]

It may be the single most important comorbidity...

But since its basically self inflicted, should it count in determining how soon someone gets vaccinated?

 

[DzynKingRTR]

But since its basically self inflicted, should it count in determining how soon someone gets vaccinated?

I say no and I put smokers in this same group. You put this on yourself. I was born with asthma. I had my first attack at 10 days old. I am only slightly overweight but I exercise. I also have high BP. My dad had high BP. My grandfather had high BP. My great grandfather had high BP. Chances are I was going to have high BP no matter what I did. So fat people and smokers, can wait.

 

[Maudiemae]

Trump or not I personally don't trust any of these big corporations in the slightest. They have worked hard to earn that distrust over the last century.

I tend to agree and fully understand the distrust and reluctance to jump in line for the vaccine. I am desperate, though. I will be a first time grandmother this summer and the thought of not being able to go to my daughter's house, hold that baby and help my daughter and her hubby with their first child is absolutely ripping me apart. I will take the vaccine as soon as it's available to me.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

But since its basically self inflicted, should it count in determining how soon someone gets vaccinated?

Current thinking is that, in many cases, it's not really "self-inflicted." Anyway, that is obviously a very slippery slope...

 

[B1GTide]

Current thinking is that, in many cases, it's not really "self-inflicted." Anyway, that is obviously a very slippery slope...

Emotionally, I think that most of it is self-inflicted (especially the smoking), but I don't think that we can afford to start parsing like that when the focus is on getting as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible to stop the deaths.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Emotionally, I think that most of it is self-inflicted (especially the smoking), but I don't think that we can afford to start parsing like that when the focus is on getting as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible to stop the deaths.

I agree. I was only speaking to the obesity issue. It's been found that, if you live in a "food desert," i.e. inner city, where you only have a bad diet within walking distance, you're going to be obese. Genetics also plays a large part. The "You brought it on yourself" attitude is a moral escape route...

 

[Bamaro]

Current thinking is that, in many cases, it's not really "self-inflicted." Anyway, that is obviously a very slippery slope...

It is basically self inflicted .
If you have two 75 year olds, or two asthmatics, etc., is it really fair to make the 175 pound one wait while the 235 lb one gets the vaccine? You're effectively penalizing the one with healthy weight aren't you?

 

[NationalTitles18]

I heard that this AM and I was puzzled. Obviously, the "full dose" was miscalculated. But why on earth would a heavier dose actually depress the immune response? Just doesn't make sense...

I'll find the link later if i remember but I read a medscape case where COVID knocked the immune system down enough to allow a secondary aspergillus pneumonia that ended up killing the patient. I wonder if too much of a good thing can do the same in the case of the vaccine.

 

[B1GTide]

It is basically self inflicted .
If you have two 75 year olds, or two asthmatics, etc., is it really fair to make the 175 pound one wait while the 235 lb one gets the vaccine? You're effectively penalizing the one with healthy weight aren't you?

That is a good point.

 

[NationalTitles18]

As Earle said above, the moral judgment argument is a slippery slope and one I do not support, particularly knowing the amount of judgment that already takes place and how it already negatively impacts care for those patients.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

It is basically self inflicted .
If you have two 75 year olds, or two asthmatics, etc., is it really fair to make the 175 pound one wait while the 235 lb one gets the vaccine? You're effectively penalizing the one with healthy weight aren't you?

You don't understand and I'm not going to waste time on it. It is a complex condition with a number of causes. It most certainly is not as simple as "self-inflicted." Here is a CDC article for starting reading...

CDC

 

[TIDE-HSV]

That is a good point.

Is it? A moral judgment on each prospective recipient?

 

[Bamaro]

You don't understand and I'm not going to waste time on it. It is a complex condition with a number of causes. It most certainly is not as simple as "self-inflicted." Here is a CDC article for starting reading...

CDC

You're focusing on the exceptions. I'm focusing on the real world.

 

[B1GTide]

Is it? A moral judgment on each prospective recipient?

Making a person wait longer because he managed his weight could cost him his life. Both are 75 in the scenario presented. Both are in danger every single day. No moral judgement there.

If he had used a lower age - say 35 - I would say that the overweight needs the vaccine sooner as his risk is much, much higher.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Making a person wait longer because he managed his weight could cost him his life. Both are 75 in the scenario presented. Both are in danger every single day. No moral judgement there.

If he had used a lower age - say 35 - I would say that the overweight needs the vaccine sooner as his risk is much, much higher.

I'm sorry, but medical science doesn't agree that obesity is as simple as "managed his weight." One of those "agree to disagree" matters...

 

[B1GTide]

I'm sorry, but medical science doesn't agree that obesity is as simple as "managed his weight." One of those "agree to disagree" matters...

Some people cannot manage their weight, while others can. I don't blame obesity on the obese, even though at least a portion of them could have avoided it. But I also do not think it appropriate to penalize those who are not obese.