Politics: DNC Chairperson doesn't seem to know that illegal immigration is against the law

[BamaInMo1]

One thing I keep hearing from some is that we need to "liberalize" the immagration system. Haven't we, as a nation, liberalized enough? I mean how much welfare and social engineering can one country take?
Now, one thing we need to do is change immagration policy (on that I will agree). No more of this stuff about automatic citizenship just because your illegal parents gave birth to you here. If you drive the getaway car in a robery you are just as culpable ( I know, not the best analogy but you should get the point)
Problem is we have become a country of winers to whom everything is "unfair" if not everybody is on the same level. Get over it. There is no "level playing field". That is just a load of PC mess.

Get the illegals out of here (no matter where they come from) and if they come here again make the punishment harsh so that word gets back to their other illegal bretheren ( and sisters, GOD forbid that I offend anyone) that you do not want to be here illegally. Cut out the welfare and so on that we provide to illegals. Cut out the free healthcare to illegals ( oh, no, the big meanie conservatives want to kill people). Quit letting everyone leach off the system who does not pay into it.

And yes, put up a fence manned by armed soldiers across the boarder with Mexico so that ranchers, who in the past have tried to provide some aid in the form of food and water tp illegals, don't end up shot.

No, we don't need to "liberalize" our immagration system anymore than it already is. Streamline it I'll give you, but no more taxpayer sponsored welfare to those who won't come here legally.

 

[Bama Reb]

One thing I keep hearing from some is that we need to "liberalize" the immagration system. Haven't we, as a nation, liberalized enough? I mean how much welfare and social engineering can one country take?
Now, one thing we need to do is change immagration policy (on that I will agree). No more of this stuff about automatic citizenship just because your illegal parents gave birth to you here. If you drive the getaway car in a robery you are just as culpable ( I know, not the best analogy but you should get the point)
Problem is we have become a country of winers to whom everything is "unfair" if not everybody is on the same level. Get over it. There is no "level playing field". That is just a load of PC mess.

Get the illegals out of here (no matter where they come from) and if they come here again make the punishment harsh so that word gets back to their other illegal bretheren ( and sisters, GOD forbid that I offend anyone) that you do not want to be here illegally. Cut out the welfare and so on that we provide to illegals. Cut out the free healthcare to illegals ( oh, no, the big meanie conservatives want to kill people). Quit letting everyone leach off the system who does not pay into it.

And yes, put up a fence manned by armed soldiers across the boarder with Mexico so that ranchers, who in the past have tried to provide some aid in the form of food and water tp illegals, don't end up shot.

No, we don't need to "liberalize" our immagration system anymore than it already is. Streamline it I'll give you, but no more taxpayer sponsored welfare to those who won't come here legally.

Great post. I agree 100%.
I can only add that there are a whole lot of people who don't realize the seriousness of this country's present economic condition. A lot of people are going to have to bite the bullet as many of our social programs are trimmed or eliminated.
I think the first thing we should do is to eliminate services for those 'sponges' who are here illegally and contribute little or nothing to the economic growth of our communities, states and nation as a whole.

 

[Bama4Ever831]

I agree with making illegal immigrants paying back taxes to gain amnesty. I just don't know how it is possible. I have had several conversations with others about how to allow people to stay if they can't afford taxes, but there isn't a really good way to recoup money lost. It is a very difficult dilemma.

 

[CrimsonNan]

But...but...Janet Incompetanto says the border is safer than it's ever been. Hohohohoho - sure Janet!!! :conf2:

 

[bamacon]

I agree with making illegal immigrants paying back taxes to gain amnesty. I just don't know how it is possible. I have had several conversations with others about how to allow people to stay if they can't afford taxes, but there isn't a really good way to recoup money lost. It is a very difficult dilemma.

No it's not. NO AMNESTY. These are lawbreakers who need 180 days to return to their country of origin and if they don't we start to arrest them. Then they will start " living in the shadows". Our nation is founded on the rule of law and it is high time they learn what that actually means.

 

[Bamaro]

I respect everyone's opinions here. I was once much more militant about this than I am now. But here are some facts we can't get around. First, we aren't going to round up 15 million people and deport them. That is insane for so many reasons, not the least of which the cost. Second, even if we do deport them, they will come back. And we aren't going to machine gun them as they cross the border (I wonder what kind of country some of you guys want to live in). We can't put them in jail unless you really want to provide for them for the rest of their lives. So, we can either reform the system and let honest hard working people in to the country, thus taking the pressure off of border control to allow them to arrest the criminals and terrorists. It's like drugs. You may hate drugs, and it might make you feel good that we are fighting a drug war, but it is not working.

You dont have to round up and deport. Eliminate the jobs for illegals and you eliminate the problem.

 

[Bama Reb]

I respect everyone's opinions here. I was once much more militant about this than I am now. But here are some facts we can't get around. First, we aren't going to round up 15 million people and deport them. That is insane for so many reasons, not the least of which the cost. Second, even if we do deport them, they will come back. And we aren't going to machine gun them as they cross the border (I wonder what kind of country some of you guys want to live in). We can't put them in jail unless you really want to provide for them for the rest of their lives. So, we can either reform the system and let honest hard working people in to the country, thus taking the pressure off of border control to allow them to arrest the criminals and terrorists. It's like drugs. You may hate drugs, and it might make you feel good that we are fighting a drug war, but it is not working.

If you go back and read my post (#49) you'll see I've already addressed this. No need to round them up and pay to deport them. No need to put them in prison. No need to "machine-gun them at the border". Absolutely, it's crazy to even consider such actions.
But we do need to secure our borders. At the same time, we need to change the attitude about this in Wash. DC. Start enforcing the laws concerning illegals. Stop harboring them. Refuse to allow them access to our social programs or employment. Punish every business owner who knowingly employs a person without verification of citizenship. Make it unbearable for them to stay here and they will leave on their own accord.

In fact, I'd like to see us adopt laws similar to those that Mexico itself enforces.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14632

 

[Bama4Ever831]

No it's not. NO AMNESTY. These are lawbreakers who need 180 days to return to their country of origin and if they don't we start to arrest them. Then they will start " living in the shadows". Our nation is founded on the rule of law and it is high time they learn what that actually means.

Yeah let's pay for that too. It makes one problem into another.

 

[swoop10]

Yeah let's pay for that too. It makes one problem into another.

Explain the difference between paying for that (as you say) and paying for amnesty if you don't mind. If you think we can get back taxes out of these people you are out of your mind. One other problem nobody has mentioned is that a lot of the money these people earn goes back to Mexico and doesn't stay here. That's another fact that liberals don't see when saying that these people are the backbone of our economy.

 

[gmart74]

considering we have an officially declared "war on drugs" and that war is by and large fueled by illegal crossings of our southern border, that makes illegal aliens an invading army of a currently active war. thus any politician that enables this invading army to enter the US is a traitor, guilty of treason, and deserves to be arrested and given the death penalty. i'll hold my breath waiting for this to occur.

 

[Bama4Ever831]

Explain the difference between paying for that (as you say) and paying for amnesty if you don't mind. If you think we can get back taxes out of these people you are out of your mind. One other problem nobody has mentioned is that a lot of the money these people earn goes back to Mexico and doesn't stay here. That's another fact that liberals don't see when saying that these people are the backbone of our economy.

Not a liberal, but....

What I saying is that we have already lost the money we WOULD have got for taxes. By rounding them up and shipping them out we also have to pay to make them leave. It is kind of like two kids sneaking into a movie and then as the owner driving the kids to Mexico to teach them a lesson. You lost much more money. Why not make the kids work off their debt? In the case of immigrants, make them pay their debt back or agree to a payment plan. Perhaps serving like a volunteer cleaning up streets or something to "work off" their debt.

I really don't know the answer. That is what I am saying, there isn't really a good answer in my opinion. Nothing seems to really solve a problem without creating another problem or costing more money than we have already wasted.

 

[swoop10]

Not a liberal, but....

What I saying is that we have already lost the money we WOULD have got for taxes. By rounding them up and shipping them out we also have to pay to make them leave. It is kind of like two kids sneaking into a movie and then as the owner driving the kids to Mexico to teach them a lesson. You lost much more money. Why not make the kids work off their debt? In the case of immigrants, make them pay their debt back or agree to a payment plan. Perhaps serving like a volunteer cleaning up streets or something to "work off" their debt.

I really don't know the answer. That is what I am saying, there isn't really a good answer in my opinion. Nothing seems to really solve a problem without creating another problem or costing more money than we have already wasted.

Okay, if not a liberal then what do you consider yourself, and please don't say a moderate?

One of the answers has already been discussed and it wouldn't cost taxpayers much of anything. Get rid of the jobs. Make the employers who hire these people pay for what they are doing. Once the jobs are gone the illegals will deport themselves. It's not as complicated as most would like us to believe. They have to have a reason to stay and jobs is it. Take them away and make them come back with a work visa.

 

[Bama4Ever831]

Okay, if not a liberal then what do you consider yourself, and please don't say a moderate?

I don't need to defend myself to anyone. And besides, why would I deprive you of your true joy of automatically disagreeing with me?


But that solution, does not allow us to recoup the money. I thought you crazy Tea Party folk were all about the money? Another fear, when there are no jobs, people could just get desperate and turn to crime. I say keep 'em busy and put them to work and save the money we were typically paying to clean the streets and other tasks that we are paying people to do right now. Make Saturday be work day for the "volunteers" working off their tax debt.

 

[swoop10]

I don't need to defend myself to anyone. And besides, why would I deprive you of your true joy of automatically disagreeing with me?


But that solution, does not allow us to recoup the money. I thought you crazy Tea Party folk were all about the money? Another fear, when there are no jobs, people could just get desperate and turn to crime. I say keep 'em busy and put them to work and save the money we were typically paying to clean the streets and other tasks that we are paying people to do right now. Make Saturday be work day for the "volunteers" working off their tax debt.

I didn't ask you to defend yourself just to explain where you see yourself in the political spectrum. Also, why you have to defend yourself unless you think liberalism is offensive?

First, I'm not a crazy Tea Party person. Next, now who is fear mongering? So we now have to worry about illegals turning to crime so why not just let them stay and give them everything they want? Let's not worry about how they got here just let them tell us what they want and give it to them. That's exactly what we should do for everybody. Let's just give everybody a job, a house, and everything else they need and we can all sit around and hold hands and sing coum by ya. Great idea.

 

[Bama4Ever831]

I didn't ask you to defend yourself just to explain where you see yourself in the political spectrum. Also, why you have to defend yourself unless you think liberalism is offensive?

First, I'm not a crazy Tea Party person. Next, now who is fear mongering? So we now have to worry about illegals turning to crime so why not just let them stay and give them everything they want? Let's not worry about how they got here just let them tell us what they want and give it to them. That's exactly what we should do for everybody. Let's just give everybody a job, a house, and everything else they need and we can all sit around and hold hands and sing coum by ya. Great idea.

I thought you Tea Party guys were much much party and much less politics. I do see myself center-left. I actually believe in spending (temporary spending as in infrastructure projects) to get out of a recession and once out, cut welfare programs (gasp!) and other programs to balance things out. I am as about as liberal as you get when it comes to social issues. Just leave people alone already! No one is forcing you to do anything, but leave others alone.

I hope I am wrong, but there are MANY instances that when unemployment rises, crime rises. It isn't fear mongering, just facts.

I know you just like to disagree with me because I agree with you! I want the illegal immigration issue solved. You just haven't realized that kicking everyone else is not only just not feasible, but it will never happen! Keep dreaming about this if you wish. I'll keep dreaming people will wake up and starting wanting to clean up the environment.

 

[bamacon]

I respect everyone's opinions here. I was once much more militant about this than I am now. But here are some facts we can't get around. First, we aren't going to round up 15 million people and deport them. That is insane for so many reasons, not the least of which the cost. Second, even if we do deport them, they will come back. And we aren't going to machine gun them as they cross the border (I wonder what kind of country some of you guys want to live in). We can't put them in jail unless you really want to provide for them for the rest of their lives. So, we can either reform the system and let honest hard working people in to the country, thus taking the pressure off of border control to allow them to arrest the criminals and terrorists. It's like drugs. You may hate drugs, and it might make you feel good that we are fighting a drug war, but it is not working.

I haven't seen a militant position yet. Fact is that we didn't help the 15 million get here therefore logic says we would not have to "round them up" which no one has said either. If they refuse to assimilate, continue destroying social programs, and keep bankrupting healthcare systems people will turn against more "compassionate" approaches and demand action. If it wasn't such a large voting block I guarantee politicians would be highlighting this problem during this economic morass.

 

[swoop10]

I thought you Tea Party guys were much much party and much less politics. I do see myself center-left. I actually believe in spending (temporary spending as in infrastructure projects) to get out of a recession and once out, cut welfare programs (gasp!) and other programs to balance things out. I am as about as liberal as you get when it comes to social issues. Just leave people alone already! No one is forcing you to do anything, but leave others alone.

I hope I am wrong, but there are MANY instances that when unemployment rises, crime rises. It isn't fear mongering, just facts.

I know you just like to disagree with me because I agree with you! I want the illegal immigration issue solved. You just haven't realized that kicking everyone else is not only just not feasible, but it will never happen! Keep dreaming about this if you wish. I'll keep dreaming people will wake up and starting wanting to clean up the environment.

I don't really understand your Tea Party statement because I just said that I'm not a Tea Party member. I do agree with a lot of what the do and say but I'm not a member. I don't get the spending to get us out of a recession either. It hasn't worked, ever. Show me one time where it's worked and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but Obama himself said he found out that there is no such thing a shove ready job. Ofcourse there is but his porkulus package was just setup to save union jobs.

Unemployment with Americans and illegals are two seprate issues. Illegals have somewhere else to go, it's called home. Americans have nowhere to go. Get rid of illegals and unemployed Americans can have jobs. It maynot be the jobs they want but jobs will be there.

I understand that we agree that something needs to be done, just not what needs to be done. You seem to think that amnesty is the answer but I don't. You think it'll be too hard to get illegals to leave and I thing it'll be too hard to give them amnesty. As far as the environment goes I think most people think we need to clean it up but most don't think we have cause the problems you think we have. Name one person who wants dirty water or air. Name one country who is doing more to save the environment than us. I don't think you can.

 

[bamacon]

I don't really understand your Tea Party statement because I just said that I'm not a Tea Party member. I do agree with a lot of what the do and say but I'm not a member. I don't get the spending to get us out of a recession either. It hasn't worked, ever. Show me one time where it's worked and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but Obama himself said he found out that there is no such thing a shove ready job. Ofcourse there is but his porkulus package was just setup to save union jobs.

Unemployment with Americans and illegals are two seprate issues. Illegals have somewhere else to go, it's called home. Americans have nowhere to go. Get rid of illegals and unemployed Americans can have jobs. It maynot be the jobs they want but jobs will be there.

they might want them now. When you have 99 weeks of unemployment plus what states tack on many are getting more $$ to sit on their tookus. In WI you also can get better Healthcare Insurance being on the dole. It really is upside down. That said if businesses don't have to pay social sec, unemployment comp etc then they can pay the illegal worker more than someone on the books. So much has to be done to turn this environment around it is almost frightening. Businesses are in complete survival mode and many aren't making it and many more won't.

 

[Bama4Ever831]

I don't really understand your Tea Party statement because I just said that I'm not a Tea Party member. I do agree with a lot of what the do and say but I'm not a member. I don't get the spending to get us out of a recession either. It hasn't worked, ever. Show me one time where it's worked and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but Obama himself said he found out that there is no such thing a shove ready job. Ofcourse there is but his porkulus package was just setup to save union jobs.

Worked in Germany

Unemployment with Americans and illegals are two seprate issues. Illegals have somewhere else to go, it's called home. Americans have nowhere to go. Get rid of illegals and unemployed Americans can have jobs. It maynot be the jobs they want but jobs will be there.

Yes because the Illegals will totally just pack it up and leave. I highly doubt it.

I understand that we agree that something needs to be done, just not what needs to be done. You seem to think that amnesty is the answer but I don't. You think it'll be too hard to get illegals to leave and I thing it'll be too hard to give them amnesty. As far as the environment goes I think most people think we need to clean it up but most don't think we have cause the problems you think we have. Name one person who wants dirty water or air. Name one country who is doing more to save the environment than us. I don't think you can.

I am not saying amnesty is the answer. I am just saying kicking the illegals will never in a million years work or will be feasible. Let me put it this way, if this actually happens and it really works, I will walk to Mexico myself. You would need to give government MUCH more power to enforce this. And those that are really against illegal immigration are usually for a much smaller government, typically.

The environmental issue really isn't something I want to go into in this thread. We have gone over it many times, but I agree we have done the most. We have also done the most damage for the last two centuries, so we should be doing mich more.

 

[gmart74]

someone left this comment about the chicago flashmob beatings but i think it pertains to this subject as well:

Christopher DuFour
Big picture.. more of this is coming...Young people need their first job, minimum wage laws encourage hiring of illegals and discourage businesses from giving american kids a chance with a starting wage that fits their skills.
Federal, State and local taxes and regulations crush small businesses and provide corporate welfare for big companies that don't hire teens. It all adds up to a worsening condition. Vote with your brain over the next few elections and things can get better and violence like this will go down.

if young people cant get minimum wage jobs and learn job skills, then they often have only one resort- illegal activity. they also harbor a resentment to the system and to other minorities filling these minimum wage jobs (especially latinos). so when they become adults, you are basically almost guaranteeing race wars and civil unrest.