ESPN OTL article on U of Arizona. (Relates to Greg Byrne and Title 9)

rgw

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I think it is germane in abstract. I'm going to read the article closely and moderate if people go in a direction that is several degrees removed from the allegations in the article.
 

RTR91

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Saw the story this morning. Sad story for the girl and obvious mistake by the Arizona administration. Did notice the girl didn't respond to an email from the school telling her where she could get help.


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RTR91

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Did anyone from the school meet with her?


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She says they did not talk to her about it other than the email saying "Hey, we've been told you might be in a relationship with an employee. If you need to talk to anyone about it, here are some options."


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TIDE-HSV

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It's very interesting and should generate a lot of discussion. However, I think it's connection to Alabama football, that Byrne was involved in the process at one point, is insufficient to keep it here. Let's move it to NS for discussion...
 

Jon

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I don't see how you can fault Byrne, the Title 9 office did drop the ball though. They should have made it mandatory for her to talk to them. A Coach/player relationship is such, as the article calls out, that there is a massive power imbalance. Once they spoke to him they had to know he would get to her to try to cover. Sending an email is not enough. They should have talked to her in person. Outside of that I hope this guy gets jail and I feel bad for his kids
 

rgw

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I did a slide deck mandatory training on Title IX recently. The legal perspective of the universities seems pretty clear: the potential victim doesn't have to talk to you, you should even remind them that they don't have to talk to you but if they do then you will take to the proper channel and an official report will be filed. It seems to me that the universities hope that the potential victims don't talk to an employee about it by reinforcing that employees are duty bound to report it and "officially official" things will happen...you know monolithic sounding stuff for a person who has just been physically and emotionally terrorized. Hmmm....
 

Redwood Forrest

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I did a slide deck mandatory training on Title IX recently. The legal perspective of the universities seems pretty clear: the potential victim doesn't have to talk to you, you should even remind them that they don't have to talk to you but if they do then you will take to the proper channel and an official report will be filed. It seems to me that the universities hope that the potential victims don't talk to an employee about it by reinforcing that employees are duty bound to report it and "officially official" things will happen...you know monolithic sounding stuff for a person who has just been physically and emotionally terrorized. Hmmm....
If it can be made complicated (difficult) enough most people just give up, especially when fighting "city hall." Your wording was a point-maker. It reminded me of a one page, five paragraph letter that the corporate office sent to all the facilities where I worked. After reading it over three times (the third time very slowly) I still was not sure what the letter meant -- and I am well read.
 

rgw

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Yeah, I have trouble encapsulating what was the "message" but the best I could tell it was partly to assure that an employee doesn't press a student too hard into saying things that legally can't be "rebottled" once said. Full-time staff and faculty, other than very specific counseling personnel, are required to report anything that violates Title IX that they observe or have told to them. We have no privilege to offer confidentiality and I guess that is the sanitized way of saying it. The way it was reinforced though almost came across as "find any way possible to kick the can down the road" to me at least.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Yeah, I have trouble encapsulating what was the "message" but the best I could tell it was partly to assure that an employee doesn't press a student too hard into saying things that legally can't be "rebottled" once said. Full-time staff and faculty, other than very specific counseling personnel, are required to report anything that violates Title IX that they observe or have told to them. We have no privilege to offer confidentiality and I guess that is the sanitized way of saying it. The way it was reinforced though almost came across as "find any way possible to kick the can down the road" to me at least.
That's what I got. They didn't want to know any more than they could possibly avoid knowing. The opposite of proactive...
 

WylieTexasTider

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That's what I got. They didn't want to know any more than they could possibly avoid knowing. The opposite of proactive...
Agree. I don't think Byrne necessarily covered it up, just think he did what was advised by the legal brains. Probably should've tried a little harder to get the athlete to respond. I believe this is why he is proactively calling people who have contacted him regarding Coach Goff's antics. He realizes you can't leave any stones unturned.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Agree. I don't think Byrne necessarily covered it up, just think he did what was advised by the legal brains. Probably should've tried a little harder to get the athlete to respond. I believe this is why he is proactively calling people who have contacted him regarding Coach Goff's antics. He realizes you can't leave any stones unturned.
Sometimes, life deals hard lessons...
 

Crimson1967

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That is a strange story all around. It sounds like Byrne could have done more, but he wasn't the only one guilty there. But you can't force someone to press charges.

I'd put most of the blame on the track coach. He was closest to the situation.


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TIDE-HSV

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That is a strange story all around. It sounds like Byrne could have done more, but he wasn't the only one guilty there. But you can't force someone to press charges.

I'd put most of the blame on the track coach. He was closest to the situation.


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I agree. He had to have known there was hanky-panky going on for some time...
 

RTR91

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Sex, Lies, Coercion: Athletic Director Greg Byrne and an Arizona track & field lawsuit


From all outward appearances, internal processes were followed: Byrne sought advice of university counsel; Carter was confronted; investigations were opened. Having no concrete evidence and no cooperation by a potential complainant, Arizona was constrained a good deal. Only upon actual evidence (or a hell of a lot more circumstantial evidence than one suspicious complaint) could it act, and then it did so immediately.

Could the coaching staff and athletic department have approached the student directly and began its own ad hoc investigation? One supposes...assuming that investigation is even set forth in Arizona’s policies and procedures manual. But, the purpose of a school’s EOE / Title IX arm is to investigate precisely these sorts of matters, ones involving protected classes and personnel violations. They are trained and equipped to do so while protecting the rights of all involved and following university procedure and applicable law: this is not a situation for amateurs.

In short, Greg Byrne (and Alabama) will soon be asked “some difficult questions” that aren’t so difficult at all -- the law and internal procedure were followed. If there was bad or insufficient advice given, it was by university lawyers. And that’s a big damned if. This is not Baylor, where there is active collusion by coaches and administrators to keep facts from being known or dissuading students from reporting violations. Nor is it Tennessee, where the administration and coaching staff are far too cozy with police and can cut off complaints before they become manifest.

This was the law, and it sometimes isn’t enough to satisfy what seems to be commonsense.

But, what are the odds that becomes the narrative?
 

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