Florida to allow veterans to be teachers: no degree required

Tidewater

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I am on my 2nd go-around with kids(both of my kids are in their 30s).

What I see with local schools is that the disruptive students have very poor home lives, and custodial parents who either alibi the bad behavior or just ignore the school's information altogether.
Almost invariably, a less than ideal homelife.
What should happen is a three-strikes system. You get a warning, then a suspension, and then you go to alternative school, where you have zero rights and if you fail there, you go to juvie.

What happens in reality. Endless suspensions(1, 2-day). The disruptive kid is then placed back in the same environment where the disruption occurred before. No accountability.
Agree 100%.

Back to the OP, getting a veteran (or a veteran's spouse) into the classroom is probably not a great fix. I've known lots of guys who were great (or at least acceptable) soldiers that I would not want anywhere near a classroom.
Some might do okay, but there will be a rash of horror stories in the not too distant future of untrained public school teachers adopting really bad solutions to problems because "that was how we did things in the Navy."
 

Tidewater

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I'm a veteran with two college degrees and do contract training for agency employees in my retirement. That doesn't make me a qualified school teacher.

Much of this is being done because we don't really value public school education, so we don't provide adequate resources, including but not limited to, teacher pay.
It always struck me as odd that we require high school teachers to go through elaborate licensure to teach high school, but college teachers just need a graduate degree in content area.
College students are older, more mature, and are paying for the privilege of attending class, but the disparity in requirements to teach are stark.
That is probably an argument for raising the standards for teaching in college than lowering the standards for high school teaching.
My little sister wanted desperately to teach high school English. She got a 4.0 GPA in undergrad, did all the licensure requirements, but she had absolutely no ability whatsoever to manage a classroom, and got fired from school after school. She just could not order a student to shut up and sit down, so they walked all over her in the classroom.
 

Tidewater

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Much of this is being done because we don't really value public school education, so we don't provide adequate resources, including but not limited to, teacher pay.
I could easily live with substantial increase in my local taxes to fund better performance in schools (both in terms of teachers and students). Unfortunately, I am a tiny minority in that judgment.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I could easily live with substantial increase in my local taxes to fund better performance in schools (both in terms of teachers and students). Unfortunately, I am a tiny minority in that judgment.
I would too, and I don't have a descendant of school age within hundreds of miles of here...
 

selmaborntidefan

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On a related note though not the same:

Florida is doing two other things to help with their laboratory staffing issues, and boy are these gonna be fun (it's SB 1374):

1) They're waving state licensure for licensed nurses to perform SOME lab testing (all but high complexity)

2) They're waving state licensure for people from other countries to come work there (Florida is one of ten states that in addition to national license require state license to work in the lab).

These, of course, are designed to keep wages down and staffing levels up. For starters, nurses are overworked AND ALSO understaffed as it is, but "come to Florida and run some easy lab tests" is apparently what they want to do. And not knocking nurses in any way, but you really ought to see them when we have them in the lab running that stuff. They look as ridiculous as lab folks would trying to hang IV drips (but hey, it's a needle in the arm, so it's all the same, right?) UNLESS they used to work in the lab and got out of it. The second, well, nothing against immigrants, either, but it's always amazing to me how this stuff happens as it does.

If you're an American citizen and you want to work in Florida (I don't know why anyone would but anyway), you have to purchase a state license after meeting whatever additional requirements. BUT.....if you're either not a lab tech but a nurse OR you're NOT an American citizen but from outside the country, you can skip that MANDATORY stuff and go right to making a living as a lab tech.

This.......from the America First folks........


(Note: most states DID relax state licensure temporarily during Covid INCLUDING some areas of California).
 

NationalTitles18

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On a related note though not the same:

Florida is doing two other things to help with their laboratory staffing issues, and boy are these gonna be fun (it's SB 1374):

1) They're waving state licensure for licensed nurses to perform SOME lab testing (all but high complexity)

2) They're waving state licensure for people from other countries to come work there (Florida is one of ten states that in addition to national license require state license to work in the lab).

These, of course, are designed to keep wages down and staffing levels up. For starters, nurses are overworked AND ALSO understaffed as it is, but "come to Florida and run some easy lab tests" is apparently what they want to do. And not knocking nurses in any way, but you really ought to see them when we have them in the lab running that stuff. They look as ridiculous as lab folks would trying to hang IV drips (but hey, it's a needle in the arm, so it's all the same, right?) UNLESS they used to work in the lab and got out of it. The second, well, nothing against immigrants, either, but it's always amazing to me how this stuff happens as it does.

If you're an American citizen and you want to work in Florida (I don't know why anyone would but anyway), you have to purchase a state license after meeting whatever additional requirements. BUT.....if you're either not a lab tech but a nurse OR you're NOT an American citizen but from outside the country, you can skip that MANDATORY stuff and go right to making a living as a lab tech.

This.......from the America First folks........


(Note: most states DID relax state licensure temporarily during Covid INCLUDING some areas of California).
18 years ago I worked at a little urgent care and did some lab and even x-ray (the basics like CBC, flu, strep, sed rate, and a few others). Not anything I'd want to do again. I hate timers and I'm not fond of 20 things cooking at once unless it's in the kitchen.
 
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NationalTitles18

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81usaf92

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I'm a veteran with two college degrees and do contract training for agency employees in my retirement. That doesn't make me a qualified school teacher.

Much of this is being done because we don't really value public school education, so we don't provide adequate resources, including but not limited to, teacher pay.
The problem is that public education has been geared into “preparing citizens for the work force” and not to educate people into content knowledge. At some point we tried to make a detour and tried to convince people that a college education was a desirable goal for high school students so they made every school district value “college readiness”. What that really means is anyone’s guess, because the actual numbers colleges send back shows that everyone in the private and public systems fudge their numbers. But what it has done is make many four degrees just 40K Toliet paper because there are too many BA and BS holders. Now schools are trying “inquiry based learning”. Yes it works in Math and Science but put it in ELA and Social Studies and you ha Chaos because there are far less experimental stuff you can do in dry and memorization based subjects.

But all of these changes have made school boards more political and teachers more unsure of what and how to teach. if you want people ready for college then be willing to fail and discipline students. If you want people ready for the work force then be ready to discipline students and teach students basic education and stop focusing on testing. If you want both then do like just about all European countries and create two paths in secondary school. But all of this “everyone needs to go to college” stuff has really lead to what we are seeing today.
 
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81usaf92

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I could easily live with substantial increase in my local taxes to fund better performance in schools (both in terms of teachers and students). Unfortunately, I am a tiny minority in that judgment.
There was a study years ago from medical schools in Europe that concluded that private school students do worse in their first year in Medical Schools than public school students. They also find that private schools vastly fudge their numbers in scoring to look like better alternatives and that they are less prepared for college in general than their public school peers. Keep in mind this is Europe and they have different opinions on who should and shouldn’t be in university, and value college readiness more than us. Funding doesn’t necessarily mean college ready.

Teacher certifications are the same in public and private. The idea that you are getting better at either is like someone trying to convince you that UAB produces better nurses in the State of Alabama than everyone else. Keep in mind private schools can hide their actual numbers and their issues from the public because they are actively selling a product. The real advantage of a private school is that they can choose how to form their curriculum and they have a smaller chain of command. More or less teachers and parents know what they are getting by being there.

Public schools are changing constantly because each system is highly political. Applying more funds in public education is just going to most likely enrich the school board members and administrators. Really nothing is going to change. If you don’t change the goal or atleast identify the goal of public education then nothing is going to change. Lower praxis scores and taking away certification requirements is a way Alabama and Florida are trying to get out of paying Alternative Masters as first time teachers.
 

TIDE-HSV

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The problem is that public education has been geared into “preparing citizens for the work force” and not to educate people into content knowledge. At some point we tried to make a detour and tried to convince people that a college education was a desirable goal for high school students so they made every school district value “college readiness”. What that really means is anyone’s guess, because the actual numbers colleges send back shows that everyone in the private and public systems fudge their numbers. But what it has done is make many four degrees just 40K Toliet paper because there are too many BA and BS holders. Now schools are trying “inquiry based learning”. Yes it works in Math and Science but put it in ELA and Social Studies and you ha Chaos because there are far less experimental stuff you can do in dry and memorization based subjects.

But all of these changes have made school boards more political and teachers more unsure of what and how to teach. if you want people ready for college then be willing to fail and discipline students. If you want people ready for the work force then be ready to discipline students and teach students basic education and stop focusing on testing. If you want both then do like just about all European countries and create two paths in secondary school. But all of this “everyone needs to go to college” stuff has really lead to what we are seeing today.
Even the diversified occupation and diversified education programs of my youth have disappeared. One problem with introducing the second, occupational path now, is the fact that the occupations themselves have vanished, exported overseas. Our machine tool industry is tiny.I hate to sound like a Cassandra, but I think rebalancing our economy is a matter of national survival. The CHIPs act is just a beginning...
 

BamaFlum

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Even the diversified occupation and diversified education programs of my youth have disappeared. One problem with introducing the second, occupational path now, is the fact that the occupations themselves have vanished, exported overseas. Our machine tool industry is tiny.I hate to sound like a Cassandra, but I think rebalancing our economy is a matter of national survival. The CHIPs act is just a beginning...
One area that schools could work on is the trade school path. Our area is hurting for qualified plumbers, electricians, carpenters, metal workers, etc. There is very good money to made (for some hard work and sweat) and a plethora of opportunities.

I’ve heard countless stories of friends trying to get work done and not finding anyone willing to do the work because of either being too busy or not having enough labor to get the jobs done.
 

BamaFlum

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But does allow unqualified veterans to get a teaching certificate.
But, an experienced veteran could teach basic MS and early HS classes (not sure about elementary school 😉). They could have a mentor to help with classroom management and bureaucracy (don’t get me started on that) and the vet could easily teach basic English, math, history, or even science.
 
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NationalTitles18

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But, an experienced veteran could teach basic MS and early HS classes (not sure about elementary school 😉). They could have a mentor to help with classroom management and bureaucracy (don’t get me started on that) and the vet could easily teach basic English, math, history, or even science.
OK. You think teaching is easy and anyone can do it with no idea of how or why. Additionally they should be provided with a teacher to teach them how to teach even though it's so easy.

And let's not even consider that trained teachers do not get enough instruction on special education needs and do a poor enough job already there (in part because administration does not support them).

But yeah, unknowledgeable and untrained vets are just going to walk straight in and do the best job evar. Uh huh.

Glad I don't have kids in FL schools.
 
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NationalTitles18

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We'll see how this shakes down, but FL's education system is pretty highly ranked vs other states, has been for decades.
They did once take standards seriously.

Every state is struggling to some degree now, some more than others.

Getting veterans in the classroom is pandering. By the time the results show Deathsanta intends to be long gone.
 
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BamaFlum

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OK. You think teaching is easy and anyone can do it with no idea of how or why. Additionally they should be provided with a teacher to teach them how to teach even though it's so easy.

And let's not even consider that trained teachers do not get enough instruction on special education needs and do a poor enough job already there (in part because administration does not support them).

But yeah, unknowledgeable and untrained vets are just going to walk straight in and do the best job evar. Uh huh.

Glad I don't have kids in FL schools.
I’ve been an educator for over 20 years.

Just because you have a piece of paper from a place of higher education doesn’t make you a good teacher. I’ve seen professionals come in with an emergency certification (coming from the work place to teach a specific subject) and do well. I’ve also seen some not do well. A veteran with a logistical background could teach math. A veteran with a medical background could teach health science. It can be done and has been done in the past successfully. Is Florida’s program going to well or fall on its face? Time will tell but FL needs teachers and this is one way to bridge the gap.
 

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