FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

CajunCrimson

Hall of Fame
Mar 13, 2001
19,402
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The shooter didn't initiate the altercation..... At that point it's an exchange of angry words....

The guy pushed the shooter down -- The shooter pulled the gun..... (up to this point - I think if the guy felt threatened, he had the right to pull his weapon)

But -- he did NOT have a need to shoot the guy.....as the guy did not continue the assault, etc. He may have felt scared at that point, and vulnerable. But from watching the video, it looks like he had plenty of time from aim to shoot -- to "NOT" pull the trigger. If he had pulled and shot in one motion -- I might feel different, but it appears he had plenty of time to weigh the moment.

Ironically - had he not shot -- the guy who shoved him, likely would have been arrested for assault, and they probably would have gotten a fine for parking illegally....
 

chanson78

All-American
Nov 1, 2005
2,623
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Huntsville, AL
The shooter didn't initiate the altercation..... At that point it's an exchange of angry words....

The guy pushed the shooter down -- The shooter pulled the gun..... (up to this point - I think if the guy felt threatened, he had the right to pull his weapon)

But -- he did NOT have a need to shoot the guy.....as the guy did not continue the assault, etc. He may have felt scared at that point, and vulnerable. But from watching the video, it looks like he had plenty of time from aim to shoot -- to "NOT" pull the trigger. If he had pulled and shot in one motion -- I might feel different, but it appears he had plenty of time to weigh the moment.

Ironically - had he not shot -- the guy who shoved him, likely would have been arrested for assault, and they probably would have gotten a fine for parking illegally....
I'm not sure if I am on the right planet anymore. This is at least twice in a year that I agree with you. WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH CAJUNCRIMSON?
 

RollTARDIS

Scout Team
Nov 22, 2017
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The shooter didn't initiate the altercation..... At that point it's an exchange of angry words....

The guy pushed the shooter down -- The shooter pulled the gun..... (up to this point - I think if the guy felt threatened, he had the right to pull his weapon)

But -- he did NOT have a need to shoot the guy.....as the guy did not continue the assault, etc. He may have felt scared at that point, and vulnerable. But from watching the video, it looks like he had plenty of time from aim to shoot -- to "NOT" pull the trigger. If he had pulled and shot in one motion -- I might feel different, but it appears he had plenty of time to weigh the moment.

Ironically - had he not shot -- the guy who shoved him, likely would have been arrested for assault, and they probably would have gotten a fine for parking illegally....
Objectively, that is how I see it.
 

CajunCrimson

Hall of Fame
Mar 13, 2001
19,402
1,543
173
Breaux Bridge, La
I'm not sure if I am on the right planet anymore. This is at least twice in a year that I agree with you. WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH CAJUNCRIMSON?
Hey don't worry about it -- you are in good company......there are millions of people all over the world who are only right twice a year ;)
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,695
7,944
423
Huntsville, AL,USA
The shooter didn't initiate the altercation..... At that point it's an exchange of angry words....

The guy pushed the shooter down -- The shooter pulled the gun..... (up to this point - I think if the guy felt threatened, he had the right to pull his weapon)

But -- he did NOT have a need to shoot the guy.....as the guy did not continue the assault, etc. He may have felt scared at that point, and vulnerable. But from watching the video, it looks like he had plenty of time from aim to shoot -- to "NOT" pull the trigger. If he had pulled and shot in one motion -- I might feel different, but it appears he had plenty of time to weigh the moment.

Ironically - had he not shot -- the guy who shoved him, likely would have been arrested for assault, and they probably would have gotten a fine for parking illegally....
That's the way I saw it after several viewings. The shover definitely takes a step backwards. I think the shooter had at that time already decided to shoot. Interestingly enough, the family of the victim has retained private counsel. This doesn't usually happen until there's already a prosecution underway. IOW, there's nothing to do but perhaps to go argue with the DA, if he decides not to prosecute. As I said earlier, I really don't know of any jurisdiction where the police chief is the last word, unless he's just voicing what the DA has decided...
 

81usaf92

Hall of Fame
Apr 26, 2008
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The only thing I fault the guy who pushed him down was him not finishing the fight.

The coward that shot him was looking for a reason to shoot someone plain and simple. There were reports that this wasn’t the first time he harassed someone at that gas station. I hope he gets sued back to the Stone Age. This was murder plain and simple.
 

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
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I believe as more info comes in he's going to be charged. He should have at least been arrested.
I agree. There were witnesses who saw him screaming at the victim’s wife. Arrest him, charge manslaughter or whatever, and let the system take it from there. Now the police are going to come under fire for not doing so.


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CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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I feel like the aggressor took a step back just about simultaneous with the shot being fired. It wasn't like he was backpedaling for several steps. The backward motion started at about the same time the gun went off. To me, I can see how the guy on the ground was in fear for his safety. He had just been violently pushed and the aggressor was still standing aggressively in front of him. Tragic situation that could have been avoided several ways but once you put your hands on somebody else it escalates the situation which was otherwise just an exchange of words. Race has nothing to do with my perspective on this. If the skin colors were reversed I'd feel the same way. I didn't even know the races of the 2 individuals from the video until I started reading the comments here by the same people who bring race into everything like this..
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
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Huntsville, AL,USA
I feel like the aggressor took a step back just about simultaneous with the shot being fired. It wasn't like he was backpedaling for several steps. The backward motion started at about the same time the gun went off. To me, I can see how the guy on the ground was in fear for his safety. He had just been violently pushed and the aggressor was still standing aggressively in front of him. Tragic situation that could have been avoided several ways but once you put your hands on somebody else it escalates the situation which was otherwise just an exchange of words. Race has nothing to do with my perspective on this. If the skin colors were reversed I'd feel the same way. I didn't even know the races of the 2 individuals from the video until I started reading the comments here by the same people who bring race into everything like this..
Funny, how we can see such different sequences. I see one clear step backwards and then sort of a half step and the victim's assuming a defensive or alarmed posture. THEN, the gun goes off. Bottom line, this guy didn't have to shoot...
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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Funny, how we can see such different sequences. I see one clear step backwards and then sort of a half step and the victim's assuming a defensive or alarmed posture. THEN, the gun goes off. Bottom line, this guy didn't have to shoot...
The first steps of the aggressor after the push were towards the man on the ground to the point he was standing over him. From the perspective of the guy being assaulted I can see how it's not clear that the aggressor is moving slightly backwards as he's drawing the gun. Several others have mentioned the same thing so I guess it is funny how we people see things slightly different. At best, it was 1 step backwards which can be hard to discern when you've just been assaulted..
 

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
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If you are screaming at a woman and her young children over a parking space and her boyfriend shoves you to the ground, you should thank him for not punching you in the mouth.

Yes, the guy probably shouldn’t have physically assaulted him, but I don’t blame him.


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CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
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If you are screaming at a woman and her young children over a parking space and her boyfriend shoves you to the ground, you should thank him for not punching you in the mouth.

Yes, the guy probably shouldn’t have physically assaulted him, but I don’t blame him.


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Absolutely. Words are exchanged in situations like this all the time but the escalation was the physical assault which led to gun being fired. Just the other day I was in the drive thru at Chick-Fil-A with my family. Car A had just ordered and had some more room where they could go forward in the line but didn't pull up all the way. Car B wasn't able to order yet because Car A didn't pull up as far as they could. Car B honked the horn, Car A rolled down the window and said who are you honking at? Car B then said I'm honking at you, pull up so I can order and Car A yelled back "you're such a redneck" and just sat there. Car A eventually pulled up but nobody got out of the car and assaulted anybody. To me, that was what really started the incident in FL because having words about parking illegally, pulling up in a drive thru or whatever happen all the time but when someone escalates it to physical violence it can go many different ways. It's tragic the way this turned out and could have been avoided by both parties but the physical assault is what really escalated it past everyday verbal exchanges..

Oh, and in my little story about Chick-Fil-A, both parties were white. I know that's of the utmost importance to some..
 
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