Formula 1 British Grand Prix

bvandegraff

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Anyone else watch this one? I think the Red Bull/Mercedes rivalry just took a nasty turn. Anyone have any takes on the Hamilton/Verstappen shunt? I've got some, but will wait to see other comments.
 

DogPatch

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Anyone else watch this one? I think the Red Bull/Mercedes rivalry just took a nasty turn. Anyone have any takes on the Hamilton/Verstappen shunt? I've got some, but will wait to see other comments.
I don't exactly what you're referring to, but I am tired of Hamilton and his prima donna attitude.
 

UAH

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Anyone else watch this one? I think the Red Bull/Mercedes rivalry just took a nasty turn. Anyone have any takes on the Hamilton/Verstappen shunt? I've got some, but will wait to see other comments.
I sort of go along with what Helmut Marko said Lewis should be suspended for a race! It was the most egregious foul I have witnessed since the 90's when drivers like Ayrton Senna or Shumacher later on would punt their competition in pursuit of a championship. The ten second stop and go penalty was practically nothing as it turned out particularly when one looks at Russell receiving a 3 grid position penalty yesterday for a bump that did not cause an accident. I could go on and on about the lack of consistency of the race stewards from race to race but that is the Achilles heel of formula I racing. The other problem is the unadulterated bias of the Sky broadcast team it is difficult to stomach. My wife and I were so upset that we turned it off when Hamilton passed Leclerc with a couple of laps left and did not watch any driver interviews.
 
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UAH

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Hamilton should have lifted, but Verstappen should have known he wouldn't. It was deliberate, and he should have been given a harsher penalty. But there is no knowing the F1 stewards.
We are not great Verstappen fans but appreciate the competition after experiencing the Mercedes domination over the last seven years or so. That has been tiresome. I don't see it as Verstappen, as the leader, responsibility to lift. There are two DRS zones at Silverstone, if Hamilton had tucked in, and got a really good run under DRS he could have passed in all probability and it would have been a great race. Instead he placed his front wing in an obviously very dangerous position and could have easily destroyed another drivers career or worse.

All of the comments coming from the UK of course lean on the side of the British driver but my eye test says that isn't so. It really sickens me to see Toto go down to the Stewards and hold such sway with them. At some point one can become sickened by the whole deal.
 
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bvandegraff

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I sort of go along with what Helmut Marko said Lewis should be suspended for a race! It was the most egregious foul I have witnessed since the 90's when drivers like Ayrton Senna or Shumacher later on would punt their competition in pursuit of a championship. The ten second stop and go penalty was practically nothing as it turned out particularly when one looks at Russell receiving a 3 grid position penalty yesterday for a bump that did not cause an accident. I could go on and on about the lack of consistency of the race stewards from race to race but that is the Achilles heel of formula I racing. The other problem is the unadulterated bias of the Sky broadcast team it is difficult to stomach. My wife and I were so upset that we turned it off when Hamilton passed Leclerc with a couple of laps left and did not watch any driver interviews.
Be glad you missed the post-race. The whole Mercedes vibe was pretty insufferable - Hamilton celebrated like he'd already won the driver's championship and said he was angry at Max for being too aggressive...unreal. Toto was in full denial mode as well - pretending not to know his team closed the championship gap by pure skulduggery. As for the fawning Sky and BBC coverage, it's too bad Nico Rosberg wasn't doing post-race interviews.

It's too bad, while I consider myself pretty neutral as an F1 newbie, I always respected Lewis and Mercedes for their culture of excellence, sort of an F1 equivalent to Alabama. However, this race would've been like a backup LB for Bama taking out an opposing QB's knee in a close game, whining about about the 15-yd penalty, then celebrating like crazy after the win while Nick Saban denied any wrongdoing. Just a real heel turn.

As for the race itself, Hamilton was clearly at fault in the crash - as you said, if he had pulled up at that corner he had a great chance to overtake on the straight considering the pace of his car. He probably thought if he didn't overtake Max on the first lap he would never get another chance (no DRS till after the 2d lap I think). The stewards reminded me of SEC replay officials - the 10-sec penalty was a joke. Leclerc ran off the track when Lewis overtook him in the same corner where he punted Max - guess he wanted to finish the race. Clearly Lewis and Mercedes have forgotten what it's like to have a real challenge to their dominance and aren't handling the pressure very gracefully.

Fun fact - Mercedes said today that they would've had to retire Hamilton's car if they hadn't gotten the red flag. Another lucky break for Lewis......

One thing's for sure, the heat between Red Bull and Mercedes is gonna be old school thermonuclear the rest of the way.
 
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bvandegraff

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I don't exactly what you're referring to, but I am tired of Hamilton and his prima donna attitude.
I go round and round with him. He's obviously a great driver and I respect that he came from a lower-middle-class background to dominate a rich man's sport. That said, I do find a lot of his remarks to be self-serving, and he'll definitely throw a fit on the rare occasions when things aren't going his way. I don't think F1 drivers get where they are without being at least in part hypercompetitive jerks when they're at work.
 
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Padreruf

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I used to watch NASCAR -- and the move he made was just mild on that circuit. BTW, fixed wing racing has never taken off in the USA -- told to me by Terry Labonte. That was a major objection several years ago to NASCAR changing their model to a fixed wing.
 

UAH

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I used to watch NASCAR -- and the move he made was just mild on that circuit. BTW, fixed wing racing has never taken off in the USA -- told to me by Terry Labonte. That was a major objection several years ago to NASCAR changing their model to a fixed wing.
The Indy car championship with chassis and tire selections very similar to Formula l with reduced cost engines and drive trains is doing quite well in North America now. Formula l could take a lot from that series in order to improve the ability for greater competition in their series. The management of ground effects and air turbulent around and over Formula l cars is one of the most complex and costly aspects of the sport with rear (flex) wing design one of the most controversial today. In an earlier life I was quite a NASCAR fan but it has lost its appeal to a wider audience beyond the red states.
 
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UAH

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I go round and round with him. He's obviously a great driver and I respect that he came from a lower-middle-class background to dominate a rich man's sport. That said, I do find a lot of his remarks to be self-serving, and he'll definitely throw a fit on the rare occasions when things aren't going his way. I don't think F1 drivers get where they are without being at least in part hypercompetitive jerks when they're at work.
I don't think F1 drivers get where they are without being at least in part hypercompetitive jerks when they're at work
That is absolutely a true statement. I do believe Vettel is one of the true nice guys in the sport.
 

Padreruf

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The Indy car championship with chassis and tire selections very similar to Formula l with reduced cost engines and drive trains is doing quite well in North America now. Formula l could take a lot from that series in order to improve the ability for greater competition in their series. The management of ground effects and air turbulent around and over Formula l cars is one of the most complex and costly aspects of the sport with rear (flex) wing design one of the most controversial today. In an earlier life I was quite a NASCAR fan but it has lost its appeal to a wider audience beyond the red states.
I'm no longer a fan -- at least I don't watch the races...when I lived in NC and had people with ties to the industry, including Petty's and Labonte's (to name drop a couple) -- I followed it some. Have never been...not on my bucket list.
Anyone who drives an open race car has my deepest respect...they are beyond dangerous imho.
 
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UAH

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Be glad you missed the post-race. The whole Mercedes vibe was pretty insufferable - Hamilton celebrated like he'd already won the driver's championship and said he was angry at Max for being too aggressive...unreal. Toto was in full denial mode as well - pretending not to know his team closed the championship gap by pure skulduggery. As for the fawning Sky and BBC coverage, it's too bad Nico Rosberg wasn't doing post-race interviews.

It's too bad, while I consider myself pretty neutral as an F1 newbie, I always respected Lewis and Mercedes for their culture of excellence, sort of an F1 equivalent to Alabama. However, this race would've been like a backup LB for Bama taking out an opposing QB's knee in a close game, whining about about the 15-yd penalty, then celebrating like crazy after the win while Nick Saban denied any wrongdoing. Just a real heel turn.

As for the race itself, Hamilton was clearly at fault in the crash - as you said, if he had pulled up at that corner he had a great chance to overtake on the straight considering the pace of his car. He probably thought if he didn't overtake Max on the first lap he would never get another chance (no DRS till after the 2d lap I think). The stewards reminded me of SEC replay officials - the 10-sec penalty was a joke. Leclerc ran off the track when Lewis overtook him in the same corner where he punted Max - guess he wanted to finish the race. Clearly Lewis and Mercedes have forgotten what it's like to have a real challenge to their dominance and aren't handling the pressure very gracefully.

Fun fact - Mercedes said today that they would've had to retire Hamilton's car if they hadn't gotten the red flag. Another lucky break for Lewis......

One thing's for sure, the heat between Red Bull and Mercedes is gonna be old school thermonuclear the rest of the way.
This is an outstanding graphic analysis of what exactly happened on the track up to the crash. Navigate past the Corvette promo unless interested in the latest hi-tech Corvette. Worth a watch for race fans.

 

bvandegraff

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The Indy car championship with chassis and tire selections very similar to Formula l with reduced cost engines and drive trains is doing quite well in North America now. Formula l could take a lot from that series in order to improve the ability for greater competition in their series. The management of ground effects and air turbulent around and over Formula l cars is one of the most complex and costly aspects of the sport with rear (flex) wing design one of the most controversial today. In an earlier life I was quite a NASCAR fan but it has lost its appeal to a wider audience beyond the red states.
I've checked out a few Indy car races and have enjoyed them, particularly the street circuits (happy to see Grosjean having a bit of a career renaissance in Indy car). The more standardized cars seem to put the drivers and their skills front and center. I know drivers like Russell, Lando, and Leclerc would appreciate more parity in equipment in F1. Mercedes seemed to figure out the turbo-hybrid power unit back in 2014 way before the other suppliers and rode that (and $500m budgets) to 7 straight championships. I guess there were a few tweaks to the technical rules that helped Red Bull even things up this year. That and the cost caps introduced this year.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next season with the new F1 cars. My understanding is that the aerodynamics of these new cars will allow cleaner, less turbulent air behind and facilitate more overtaking and close-in racing. Hope it helps the competitive balance - they kind of look like something from a science fiction movie.

I lived in Florida, Alabama, and South Carolina and never got into NASCAR. In fact it was the Senna documentary and Drive to Survive that pulled me into F1 in my middle age, but I must say I've gotten kind of addicted to it.
 
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bvandegraff

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This is an outstanding graphic analysis of what exactly happened on the track up to the crash. Navigate past the Corvette promo unless interested in the latest hi-tech Corvette. Worth a watch for race fans.

Excellent, thanks! Good to hear from someone who knows way more than I do about it. It was inevitable that they would crash at some point, and, given that Hamilton seems to have Auburn-at-Jordan-Hare luck, he would be the one that wouldn't DNF. The intensity of this rivalry is now off the charts - should make for a hugely entertaining rest of the season.
 
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