General BLM thread

[B1GTide]

Then what's the point of having a discussion if everyone thinks the same? Otherwise, it's just party.

I am open to a discussion about what caused the movement so long as it does not blame the victims. That is not a discussion about the facts, it is a deflection from the discussion itself.

Now, if someone has a reasonable point about how or why black lives do not matter and how or why the police should be allowed to continue to beat and murder them, let's hear it.

 

[Ldlane]

I grew up in East Selma during the 70s and early 80s. For those that don't know, East Selma is the "poor side of the tracks" and I attended all "African American" schools up until 8th grade. After 8th Grade we had to go to the other side of town for 9th. I left Selma after 9th Grade and moved in with my Mom and step-father (USAF). In that era, the KKK was still visible and they used to stand on the street corners and hand out their hateful literature in their robes. Hoods were banded in Alabama by that time. Nobody, really said anything and their "voice" was not that visible though their presence was felt.

When we started to go to school on the other side of town, that is when I started to feel the racism and tension in the air on a daily basis. Fast forward to today and having lived in a couple of different countries and States, I can't remember living in such a more tense time. I was commenting to a friend from El Paso who is Mexican-American that I've seen more blatant acts of racism in Arizona, than I ever did in living in the Southeast.

 

[Bazza]

[/QUOTE]

Please continue to reveal yourself.

That was victim blaming and reveals a great deal about the thoughts of the person posting it.

it's been obvious for years.

Sorry, if someone posts bigotry, they need to be called out. If that "drives them away", so much the better.

the blatant bigotry drives people away too.

the same people post the same crap and then play the "what, me? i'm just trying to have a reasonable discussion. " it's been going on for years.

i don't think it will drive them away. being the misunderstood victim seems like some sort of sustenance.

not everyone thinks the same. but a lot of us are pretty tired of the non-stop bigotry, it's been going on a long time.

if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

ymmv, and you are free to engage and educate him on the issue. good luck with that.

Bigots don't learn - they just go back underground.

Come down off your thrones.......or keep your head in the sand.

Your choice.

My post was a legitimate one addressing a real issue going on.

If you disagree that's it's a problem - fine.

But if all you have is to sit in judgement of me for posting it - then you are offering nothing of value to the thread.

 

[Ldlane]

I am open to a discussion about what caused the movement so long as it does not blame the victims. That is not a discussion about the facts, it is a deflection from the discussion itself.

Now, if someone has a reasonable point about how or why black lives do not matter and how or why the police should be allowed to continue to beat and murder them, let's hear it.

So as long as it's discussion on "your terms" you are OK with it. Good Luck with that!

 

[B1GTide]

So as long as it's discussion on "your terms" you are OK with it. Good Luck with that!

Yeah, because that is what I said.

 

[92tide]

Yeah, because that is what I said.

funny how that always works.

 

[B1GTide]

BLM - What We Believe

 

[Im_on_dsp]

That was victim blaming and reveals a great deal about the thoughts of the person posting it.

Is it victim blaming to look at all the events in an incident of police brutality and wonder what could have been done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome?

There's no doubt that we have a problem in America with police treatment of minorities. No question whatsoever. However, in every single incidence of police brutality is it 100% due to a racist cop? Was there anything in the behavior of the victim that might have been a contributing factor other than the color of their skin? We need to look at all this, not just blame it all on racist cops. We can all agree that racist cops have to go. In my mind at least, there is no debating that. However, we need a culture where police aren't seen as the enemy, to be argued with, fought with, just plain disrespected. Unless and until this happens I fear nothing is going to really change for the long term. Maybe if we get rid of all the bad cops this will be the start we need.

 

[92tide]

Is it victim blaming to look at all the events in an incident of police brutality and wonder what could have been done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome?

There's no doubt that we have a problem in America with police treatment of minorities. No question whatsoever. However, in every single incidence of police brutality is it 100% due to a racist cop? Was there anything in the behavior of the victim that might have been a contributing factor other than the color of their skin? We need to look at all this, not just blame it all on racist cops. We can all agree that racist cops have to go. In my mind at least, there is no debating that. However, we need a culture where police aren't seen as the enemy, to be argued with, fought with, just plain disrespected. Unless and until this happens I fear nothing is going to really change for the long term. Maybe if we get rid of all the bad cops this will be the start we need.

the burden should be on the police to address this problem. they have a monopoly on using state violence. maybe if they used it more wisely they wouldn't be so disrespected.

it's not just the bad cops that need to go. the good cops, as well as the system in general, do a lot to protect the bad ones.

 

[Bazza]

BLM - What We Believe

the burden should be on the police to address this problem. they have a monopoly on using state violence. maybe if they used it more wisely they wouldn't be so disrespected.

it's not just the bad cops that need to go. the good cops, as well as the system in general, do a lot to protect the bad ones.

Finally something of value - thank you.

 

[Ldlane]

BLM - What We Believe

The "movement itself" seems Marxist based on the language used like "Communal work", Comrades, etc.... and I believe that what's turns many off from the "movement" itself. That is why they gain "Allies" from the LatinX groups because they are affirmed to stop the politics of identity. So, in a sense, there is a lot of good ideas, but it's the association to Socialist values that may turn many people off.

 

[B1GTide]

Is it victim blaming to look at all the events in an incident of police brutality and wonder what could have been done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome?

Get this straight in your head forever. When white people act out with the police, they are not beaten and/or shot. When black people act out with the police, they are beaten and/or shot. It happens not because the black people act differently - it happens because the police behave differently toward young black men than they do any other group of people on the planet. This is not about victim behavior. To suggest otherwise with so much data proving the point borders on bigotry. It is like blaming a woman in a short skirt for her rape.

The second, and more important point. If you are disrespectful to a police officer, that police officer still has a responsibility to treat you with professionalism.

If you work at Chick-fil-A and a customer treats you with disrespect, and you respond in kind, you will be fired. You might get a second chance, but probably not. Why? Because Chick-fil-A has a very high standard of behavior that they expect from their employees.

The police are somehow given a pass for responding like jerks if they feel insulted or disrespected by a civilian. We are told that "they have all the power, so best to keep your head down and kiss their asses". Why? Because we all know, and have known for centuries, that police officers are going to do whatever they want to do, so you had better not give them a reason to do it to you.

That is what has to change. Police behavior. Period.

 

[Im_on_dsp]

Get this straight in your head forever. When white people act out with the police, they are not beaten and/or shot.

I get your passion but you may need to do a fact check on this one. There were actually more white people shot by cops last year than African-American. No one is arguing that police brutality is not disproportionately affecting the African-American community. However, we're not going to see any significant change until all the factors/attitudes/etc., that contribute to police brutality are changed.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Someone asked if this thread is about the BLM movement specifically or the reasoning behind it. I didn't really think about that before starting it, but upon reflection, my answer is 'yes'. This should be a catch-all thread so that these stories and thoughts don't slip through the cracks. It's time we affect change, and it starts with each and every one of us.

 

[crimsonaudio]

to get back on thread, it seems like the blm movement has police in general on their heels. i'm disappointed, but not surprised, to see the amount of violent pushback from police when being asked to not be so violent.

In my mind, one of the primary reason BLM exists is due to police brutality - address that and a lot of these issues go away. It's not just the murders, it's the systemic abuse of people of color and it has to stop.

 

[Ldlane]

@crimsonaudio I think's it's good that BLM and other people of conscience have brought the item to the forefront and out attention to this problem in society It needs to be addressed on multiple levels in the Justice system. I think a lot of people don't know that had there not been a "Malcolm X" then Dr. King's methods wouldn't have advanced hardly anything back in the 60s. I don't agree with the ideology of BLM itself due to the subversive political overtones.

 

[Ldlane]

Now if we look at this through a Marxist model (Which I believe BLM probably does). This of course is a simplification to avoid a 20-page pamphlet on Marxist thought.

1. People commit crime because they are Poor.
2. Minorities are poor because you are rich and you are rich because of your racial discrimination. (Sort of a society based "Dependency Theory" that occurs through explaining our relationship with 3rd World Countries).
3. In order to end that discrimination, we need to do away with the system and start over, there is no value of "reform" in these institutions.

 

[MattinBama]

not everyone thinks the same. but a lot of us are pretty tired of the non-stop bigotry, it's been going on a long time.

if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

ymmv, and you are free to engage and educate him on the issue. good luck with that.

I learned roughly 2-3 years ago that it was absolutely pointless to attempt to present facts & information to particular individuals on here. They’ll just wait a few days or weeks & pretend it never happened.

With that said I do think there are other people reading that aren’t as vocal that may learn from it (I think a few of us here slowly shifting viewpoints over many years shows this a bit). But it boils down to whether you have the patience to enter into a bad faith discussion in the hopes that an anonymous person learns something when you know the person “just asking questions” has zero desire to learn anything outside of their bubble.

 

[Bamaro]

I've been thinking of posting this for awhile but was concerned it may misunderstood but here goes.
The big problem seems to be perception. (aka stereotypes)
Perception that blacks are ______________. (fill in the blank)
Perception that whites are ______________. (fill in the blank)
Perception that police are ______________. (fill in the blank)
etc.
Perceptions may be true, may have some truth, may be untrue. Perceptions result in actions and reactions.
The actions against George Floyd were based on perceptions held by the officers involved. They saw a black man and based on their general perceptions reacted with tragic consequences. This happens on a daily basis but because of ubiquitous recording devices we now see it more and more. It remained mostly hidden to the general public in the past.
From what I can see, people too often dance around these perceptions without actually looking into them. We need to look into all of them, honestly address them and take actions to eliminate the false ones and correct the root cause of the true ones.

 

[92tide]

I've been thinking of posting this for awhile but was concerned it may misunderstood but here goes.
The big problem seems to be perception. (aka stereotypes)
Perception that blacks are ______________. (fill in the blank)
Perception that whites are ______________. (fill in the blank)
Perception that police are ______________. (fill in the blank)
etc.
Perceptions may be true, may have some truth, may be untrue. Perceptions result in actions and reactions.
The actions against George Floyd were based on perceptions held by the officers involved. They saw a black man and based on their general perceptions reacted with tragic consequences. This happens on a daily basis but because of ubiquitous recording devices we now see it more and more. It remained mostly hidden to the general public in the past.
From what I can see, people too often dance around these perceptions without actually looking into them. We need to look into all of them, honestly address them and take actions to eliminate the false ones and correct the root cause of the true ones.

the police also have the impression that they are above the law and can do whatever the hell they want in the name of "law and order" and a lot of folks are willing going along with it because they aren't the one's getting their skulls cracked, or being shot in the back, or being strangled for 8 minutes+, etc.