Politics: General Removal of Statues Thread

Ldlane

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The tearing down of Memorials, historical statues, etc..... may not only be about a purging of the Confederacy, Spanish Conquistadors (Juan de Oñate), and founding fathers, but part of a larger movement of "Decolonizing the Curriculum" at major universities and society in general. The Language used is the same by the protests. Something worth watching!

But the Cambridge students were part of a broader movement focused on widening the horizons not just of their peers but of their institutions. Campaigns including Rhodes Must Fall (which called for institutions in South Africa and Oxford to remove statues of the imperialist Cecil Rhodes) and Why is My Curriculum White?, launched by students at University College London, argued that only by challenging some of their own traditional assumptions could universities be truly inclusive.
 
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Ldlane

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You can bet on it...the problem I have is that it is anti-Western civ and culture...the whole basis for our democracy and culture is being eroded.
The Conquistadors and Confederates are the "easy" targets that can gain support from a large group of people. Next will come people like Villa, and Jefferson.
 

B1GTide

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We need to learn about colonization, but it should not be celebrated. What the USSR did was also colonization and no western country supported it. What Germany and Japan tried to do in WWII was colonization.

The Crimean War changed the way that the world looked at colonization, thankfully for the better.
 
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Ldlane

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We need to learn about colonization, but it should not be celebrated. What the USSR did was also colonization and no western country supported it. What Germany and Japan tried to do in WWII was colonization.

The Crimean War changed the way that the world looked at colonization, thankfully for the better.
Decolonization isn't learning about colonization; it's about wiping the slate and starting over (Maoist ideology - check out the philosophy of José Carlos Mariátegui and the Sendero Luminoso in Peru).

There is a lot that we thought about the "Spanish Conquest" that we've found out was wrong like "The Black Legend". DNA studies are proving it wrong and if you've ever read "Guns, Germs, and Steel" you find out that disease wiped out 95% + of the indigenous population and not by the sword. It was mainly through the introduction of livestock such as Pigs. Pizarro grew up on a Pig farmer himself and had these immunities to livestock.
 
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B1GTide

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Decolonization isn't learning about colonization; it's about wiping the slate and starting over
I am fine with that. Leave it up to the people. But one small subset of the population of a place does not get to decide. The various tribes around the world are a great example. They may have been there before the next group of men arrived, but they also came from somewhere else and conquered that land at some point. The word "indigenous" is misleading in its definition. Almost all of humanity came from somewhere else. They were not "indigenous" to that area. Go back far enough and you see where they came from.

That is what humans do. All of us. Every race on every continent. We spread across the globe, taking what we can.
 

Ldlane

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Just a clip of the Maoist Sendero Luminoso (Shining Path) from Peru. The language (subtitles) are similar to this Decolonization movement. You either agree with their movement or they kill you. They used to be one of the most deadly terrorist organizations in the world.

 
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Ldlane

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I am fine with that. Leave it up to the people. But one small subset of the population of a place does not get to decide. The various tribes around the world are a great example. They may have been there before the next group of men arrived, but they also came from somewhere else and conquered that land at some point. The word "indigenous" is misleading in its definition. Almost all of humanity came from somewhere else. They were not "indigenous" to that area. Go back far enough and you see where they came from.

That is what humans do. All of us. Every race on every continent. We spread across the globe, taking what we can.
It's not a "majority" it's just the "squeaky wheel" at the moment.
 

B1GTide

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It's not a "majority" it's just the "squeaky wheel" at the moment.
Agreed, but a "squeaky wheel" cannot do the authoritarian things that you suggest with the Maoist posts. What we are seeing now is a populist movement, for sure, but no large group of people is talking about dissolving governments or borders.
 
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Ldlane

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Agreed, but a "squeaky wheel" cannot do the authoritarian things that you suggest with the Maoist posts. What we are seeing now is a populist movement, for sure, but no large group of people is talking about dissolving governments or borders.
You don’t have to have a mass to adopt the ideology of a movement. It’s in its infancy right now. Wait and see.
 
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Ldlane

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It's not about the "vigilante militia" or the "Antifa", it's about the Decolonization movement that is gaining ground. It is the idea behind the protests to take them down and wipe the slate clean.

The thread is about how the Statue removal is part of a larger movement which can be comparable to Maoism in a larger sense. Let's not try to build a strawman fallacy and stick to larger sense of the issue.
 
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NationalTitles17

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It's not about the "vigilante militia" or the "Antifa", it's about the Decolonization movement that is gaining ground. It is the idea behind the protests to take them down and wipe the slate clean.

The thread is about how the Statue removal is part of a larger movement which can be comparable to Maoism in a larger sense.
The linked article is about a shooting at the site of the statue as protesters were trying to pull it down. Seems pertinent to the discussion.
 

Ldlane

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The linked article is about a shooting at the site of the statue as protesters were trying to pull it down. Seems pertinent to the discussion.
Not really, it's about how the removal of the statues of history and colonialism is part of the "Decolonization Movement" in Academia and now moving to our Public Schools. People shot or interfering relates to collateral politics of the discussion.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Not really, it's about how the removal of the statues of history and colonialism is part of the "Decolonization Movement" in Academia and now moving to our Public Schools. People shot or interfering relates to collateral politics of the discussion.
I don't agree that it's so apocalyptic. I've heard that too many times in my lengthy lifespan. I think it will flare up and then die down and attention will move elsewhere, as in 1968 and so many other times...
 
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Ldlane

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I don't agree that it's so apocalyptic. I've heard that too many times in my lengthy lifespan. I think it will flare up and then die down and attention will move elsewhere, as in 1968 and so many other times...
It is making it's way into Public Schools now under the guise of "Teaching for Social justice". The NCSS, National Council for the Social Studies and the AHA (American History Association) are really pushing it. It's come up also in some of our meetings.
 

Ldlane

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Most schools now in the large cities are changing to "Restorative Justice" programs for discipline. In the process there is a "victim" and "aggressor" and they sit and talk about why the aggressor was wrong and the feelings of the victim. Now the victim may be the actual aggressor, but due to life circumstances or the fact that the teacher is "white" and the student is a "minority" the teacher is the aggressor and the student is in fact the victim due to "historical circumstances".
 

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