Politics: General Removal of Statues Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
47,874
55,187
187
I believe that is where you taking the learning that you have helps you make your own opinions about the past and how it ties to the current life. That is the purpose of teaching one how to think through "inquiry" and not just presenting facts in logical sequence. It's not the instructor's job to tell you that these people were "terrible people, and these were the "good guys". This is where practice has to get away from me as a teacher "filling an empty cup" by giving you notes, and facts. Methodology has also failed us in the instruction of History.
I agree. I was actually taught in two different school systems that slavery was an acceptable practice until the 1800s, and that those who practiced slavery were doing nothing wrong at the time because it was acceptable and legal.

When I went home to my parents and asked about the lesson my father reported the teacher and nothing was done. That is how the subject was taught in the 70s. The behavior was okay because they just didn't know better.

But history shows that human beings did know better. Some cultures simply chose to ignore this particular more in favor of economic gain, and convinced themselves that it was okay because those whom they enslaved were "less". The twisted logic that was required to get there, and the indoctrination of that twisted logic into the minds of members of that society, live on today.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,249
398
202
I agree. I was actually taught in two different school systems that slavery was an acceptable practice until the 1800s, and that those who practiced slavery were doing nothing wrong at the time because it was acceptable and legal.

When I went home to my parents and asked about the lesson my father reported the teacher and nothing was done. That is how the subject was taught in the 70s. The behavior was okay because they just didn't know better.

But history shows that human beings did know better. Some cultures simply chose to ignore this particular more in favor of economic gain, and convinced themselves that it was okay because those whom they enslaved were "less". The twisted logic that was required to get there, and the indoctrination of that twisted logic into the minds of members of that society, live on today.
You were "told".
 
  • Like
Reactions: B1GTide

Tidewater

FB|NS|NSNP Moderator
Staff member
Mar 15, 2003
24,850
19,259
337
Hooterville, Vir.
As long as understanding the actions does not translate to excusing it. In the past, that is what we have done - excused the abhorrent behavior of people who knew better just because everyone in that period of history was accepting of the behavior. "Everyone was a racist" does not excuse slavery. It explains it, but does not excuse it. It was possible because the people of that time were horrible people, by and large. Life was almost meaningless, and suffering was a part of that short life. So the diminsment of the lives and suffering of those deemed "less" can be understood. But it was still abhorrent.
You could say the same thing today about abortion.
I often imagine a conversation in a century and a half between a history teacher and her pupil:
Student: "Abortion was a horrifying institution."
Teacher: "Yes, it was, but lots of people defended it."
Student: "Were there alternatives? Wasn't there some other form of birth control available?"
Teacher: "Yes, cheap and really available."
Student: "And people defended using a machine to rip pre-natal infants to shreds in the womb?"
Teacher: "Sadly, yes."
Students: "How could they not know that was wrong?"
Teacher: "Because they argued that a baby inside the womb was not a human being, just a 'product of conception.' Outside the womb, it normally had to have its rights protected, but inside the womb, it was not human."
Student: "Wasn't that similar to the arguments pro-slavery people made about Africans a century and a half before that, that Africans were not human?"
Teacher: "Yes, but that never occurred to the people who defended abortion."
Student: "Was one party committed to defending abortion?"
Teacher: "Yes, the same party that had been committed to defending the institution of slavery."
Student: "How could the same party be so catastrophically wrong on two issues of such enormous ethical importance?
Teacher: "Because too many people suffered from a form of mental illness known as 'partisanship' in which any position your party takes must be fanatically defended, regardless of its real merits or liabilities."

A similar conversation could also happen in regards to climate change. If the worst-case predictions turn out to be true, people in a century and a half are going to look at people of today with disbelieving eyes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: B1GTide

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,249
398
202
I had a discussion with a good friend and colleague about the "Teaching for Social Justice" program and it's links to the "Decolonization Movement" and Marxist ideology last evening. She did course work at NYU last year in "Teaching for Social Justice" and she said she never thought about it, but now that we started discussing it, "there are a lot of similarities in the language used for the program." She is Navajo.

We are correct that things in the past were legal, but all things legal aren't morally correct.

BTW - There is a good book called "The Other Slavery" by Andrés Reséndez , which tells about Spain's Native slavery up until 1542. It offers a fresh look at how after Spain ended Slavery, they provided a model for the US Slave owning states to enact laws that kept African Americans as virtual slaves by enacting such institutions as encomiendas, repartimientos, the selling of convict labor, and ultimately debt peonage. Also talked about how the Camanche and Utes took this knowledge to dominate the tribes around them and take territory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: B1GTide

Im_on_dsp

All-SEC
Oct 10, 2007
1,330
796
137
Canton, GA
I agree. I was actually taught in two different school systems that slavery was an acceptable practice until the 1800s, and that those who practiced slavery were doing nothing wrong at the time because it was acceptable and legal.
Wow! I was raised in the backwoods of Tuscaloosa, Alabama, attended public schools all my life and this is not what we were taught. The textbooks should have definitely given more attention to the horrors of slavery but I don't remember a single textbook or teacher saying slavery was OK.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
47,874
55,187
187
You could say the same thing today about (fill in the blank)
FIFY - and I agree that people will always be able to look back on history and judge. We need to. We can't just look back at something like genocide and excuse it. We have to call it evil when we talk about it. Otherwise we get into moral relativism, and a world not worth living in.

Evil is evil. No excuses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 92tide

Crimson1967

Hall of Fame
Nov 22, 2011
19,560
11,140
187
Granted it has been a while (I am 53), but I really don’t remember what I was taught about slavery other than it existed. I don’t think anyone tried to justify or glorify it but didn’t say it was horrible, either.
 

Ldlane

Hall of Fame
Nov 26, 2002
14,249
398
202
Granted it has been a while (I am 53), but I really don’t remember what I was taught about slavery other than it existed. I don’t think anyone tried to justify or glorify it but didn’t say it was horrible, either.
I don't remember it being a focus when I was in school either, although I do remember getting "Black History" as part of our curriculum.
 

TexasBama

TideFans Legend
Jan 15, 2000
26,576
30,683
287
67
Houston, Texas USA
Granted it has been a while (I am 53), but I really don’t remember what I was taught about slavery other than it existed. I don’t think anyone tried to justify or glorify it but didn’t say it was horrible, either.
I’m 62, and the first song we learned in grade school was Dixie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
|

Latest threads