Happy Secession Day

Tidewater

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Mar 15, 2003
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The other twelve colonies joined Virginia (which had already seceded alone and of her own accord) in seceding from the British Empire.

certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, ... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
The most American of principles: if the government becomes destructive of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, the people have the right to abolish that government.
And it does not require all the people or even a majority of their totality to have this right. (The people of England, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Bermuda, Jamaica, India etc. had no desire to institute a new government in 1776). A subset have this right.
 
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rolltide_21

Hall of Fame
Dec 9, 2007
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Somebody’s been watching National Treasure again I see. #bluefont

Seriously, though, I do appreciate your historical posts. I usually feel like I’m preparing for a quiz when I read them :)



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Tidewater

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If you like independence, thank an Irishman.

Joseph Galloway, Speaker of the Pennsylvania House of Assembly, at the beginning of the troubles, refused to join in measures of resistance, and in October, 1778, he left the States and went to England. There he was examined by a Committee of the House of Commons, and. when asked who composed the armies of the Continental establishment, he answered: "The names and places of their nativity being taken down, I can answer the question with precision. There were scarcely one fourth natives of America—about one half Irish; the other fourth were English and Scotch."—Dillon's Historical Evidence on the Origin and Nature of the Government of the U. S. (New York, 1871), p. 56.

Now, that was a snapshot at one location (Phillie) and one point in time (probably 1776), but i was surprised at how high the proportion of Irish were signing up. Being Phillie, "Irish" probably means mostly Ulster Scots or what we call Scotch-Irish, since Phillie was their main port of debarkation. See David Hackett Fisher's book Albion's Seed or Leyburn's Scotch-Irish.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
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Oct 13, 1999
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If you like independence, thank an Irishman.

Joseph Galloway, Speaker of the Pennsylvania House of Assembly, at the beginning of the troubles, refused to join in measures of resistance, and in October, 1778, he left the States and went to England. There he was examined by a Committee of the House of Commons, and. when asked who composed the armies of the Continental establishment, he answered: "The names and places of their nativity being taken down, I can answer the question with precision. There were scarcely one fourth natives of America—about one half Irish; the other fourth were English and Scotch."—Dillon's Historical Evidence on the Origin and Nature of the Government of the U. S. (New York, 1871), p. 56.

Now, that was a snapshot at one location (Phillie) and one point in time (probably 1776), but i was surprised at how high the proportion of Irish were signing up. Being Phillie, "Irish" probably means mostly Ulster Scots or what we call Scotch-Irish, since Phillie was their main port of debarkation. See David Hackett Fisher's book Albion's Seed or Leyburn's Scotch-Irish.
My first wife was from Philly and her dad was original Scotch-Irish stock - "Craig." Her mom was born in Dunkerque...
 

Tidewater

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My first wife was from Philly and her dad was original Scotch-Irish stock - "Craig." Her mom was born in Dunkerque...
Leyburn's book is very good. The Scotch-Irish landed at Phillie and went west to the Great Valley, wheeling around Gettyburg, continuing south of the Potomac (where it becomes the Shenandoah Valley), then southwest, spilling over the Blue Ridge into the southern Virginia Piedmont, into Piedmont North Carolina and South Carolina Upcountry.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Leyburn's book is very good. The Scotch-Irish landed at Phillie and went west to the Great Valley, wheeling around Gettyburg, continuing south of the Potomac (where it becomes the Shenandoah Valley), then southwest, spilling over the Blue Ridge into the southern Virginia Piedmont, into Piedmont North Carolina and South Carolina Upcountry.
Yes, my mother's maiden name, and my middle, is Boyd, Scotch-Irish. I've read Albion's Seed. Not nearly as much Gaelic shows up in my DNA as I had expected...
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
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Hooterville, Vir.
Yes, my mother's maiden name, and my middle, is Boyd, Scotch-Irish. I've read Albion's Seed. Not nearly as much Gaelic shows up in my DNA as I had expected...
My maternal grandmother's name was Guthrie (and John Guthrie was from prime Scot-Irish settlement territory in south-central Virginia), so I suppose I have a touch as well.
John Salmon, first county sheriff of Henry County, Virginia, and another Southside ancestor, was reputed to have been an Irishman. He was a Protestant, which probably means Scotch-Irish.
 

TIDE-HSV

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My maternal grandmother's name was Guthrie (and John Guthrie was from prime Scot-Irish settlement territory in south-central Virginia), so I suppose I have a touch as well.
John Salmon, first county sheriff of Henry County, Virginia, and another Southside ancestor, was reputed to have been an Irishman. He was a Protestant, which probably means Scotch-Irish.
Yes, no Catholics along my mother's lineage...
 

4Q Basket Case

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Nov 8, 2004
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Yes, my mother's maiden name, and my middle, is Boyd, Scotch-Irish. I've read Albion's Seed. Not nearly as much Gaelic shows up in my DNA as I had expected...
What test did you take?

Mrs. Basket Case and I did NatGeo, mainly because of the pledges around treatment of results. The controls at 23 and Me and Ancestry seemed a bit loose for us.

The downside is that NatGeo's results are less specific than the others. For example, we both got the British Isles concentration we expected. But NG doesn't distinguish between Scotland, Ireland, England, etc., simply lumping them all together into a single category.

The surprises for us: She turned up some southern Mediterranean, which I figured was leftovers from Roman soldiers in England. I turned up a significant percentage of Finnish / Siberian. Which was a total surprise. No idea of any of that, though I'm guessing it was a pair of great-great (or maybe 3x great) grandparents, probably on the maternal side, as no surnames would give any indication of that. Though it could also be an Anglicization of such a name upon arrival.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
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Oct 13, 1999
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Huntsville, AL,USA
What test did you take?

Mrs. Basket Case and I did NatGeo, mainly because of the pledges around treatment of results. The controls at 23 and Me and Ancestry seemed a bit loose for us.

The downside is that NatGeo's results are less specific than the others. For example, we both got the British Isles concentration we expected. But NG doesn't distinguish between Scotland, Ireland, England, etc., simply lumping them all together into a single category.

The surprises for us: She turned up some southern Mediterranean, which I figured was leftovers from Roman soldiers in England. I turned up a significant percentage of Finnish / Siberian. Which was a total surprise. No idea of any of that, though I'm guessing it was a pair of great-great (or maybe 3x great) grandparents, probably on the maternal side, as no surnames would give any indication of that. Though it could also be an Anglicization of such a name upon arrival.
I actually used both 23 and Ancestry. However, there are other sites you can upload your raw data to, which take a much deeper look. One I used was GEDMatch, the public site which they used to catch the Golden State serial killer. You can designate whether or not you want your data public. It's private by default. All the other sites are looking at the last 200-500 years. It showed that the population I matched the best was Orcadian (Orkney Islands), pre-Celtic and with a hefty slice of Scandinavian. 23 has me at 58% English and Irish - and I have the same problem with that as you do. Other than the British Isles and also a small slice of South European, they now narrow it down to two German areas - Lower Saxony and Brandenburg, east of Berlin. GEDMatch finds no Irish at all...