Question: Has society actually decayed or are we just more aware of it?

[DzynKingRTR]

This was a question brought up in another thread and I feel it deserves a thread of its own. So has society decayed? Are we just more aware of how crappy things are due to social media and the 24/7 news? I would add a poll but I don't think the answer is a simple yes or no. Persoanlly I think it is a bit of both. I don't think things have been just rosey and only recently got bad. I will say I knew several people that kept hunting rifles in their car at all times and nothing ever happened. I knew kids that were bullied and nothig ever happened. So have kids gotten overly sensative? I actually think they have. I remember saying awful things to people I considered friends and they said awful things back. We would just laugh and move on. Now this is considered bullying or kids go crazy and react with violence. I don't know what to do about any of this stuff and I do not htink there is any easy answer.

 

[Jon]

This was a question brought up in another thread and I feel it deserves a thread of its own. So has society decayed? Are we just more aware of how crappy things are due to social media and the 24/7 news? I would add a poll but I don't think the answer is a simple yes or no. Persoanlly I think it is a bit of both. I don't think things have been just rosey and only recently got bad. I will say I knew several people that kept hunting rifles in their car at all times and nothing ever happened. I knew kids that were bullied and nothig ever happened. So have kids gotten overly sensative? I actually think they have. I remember saying awful things to people I considered friends and they said awful things back. We would just laugh and move on. Now this is considered bullying or kids go crazy and react with violence. I don't know what to do about any of this stuff and I do not htink there is any easy answer.

actually violence, including gun violence has been on the decline for decades though I believe that there has been a fairly recent uptick we are still no where near historic levels. The difference now, imo, is the massive exposure to it via 24/7 media and there has seemingly been an increase in mass shooting incidents.

I will say we have a massive toxic masculinity problem in this country and we are exporting that problem around the world.

 

[NationalTitles18]

To me there's a big difference between truly ribbing your true friends and bullying and most everyone knows the difference so I don't like the comparison at all.

I also don't think kids are "overly sensitive". I think we are sometimes more aware and they are usually better at expressing the effects of their experiences. At least some people in society have learned that bullying does not toughen kids up. Leadership and guidance do that. Bullying tears them down. Many people recognize that but others do not. I wish we could make more progress in that area. Bullying is no more good at toughening a kid up than workplace harassment is in making one a more productive employee.

I think that if it were acceptable today that the vast majority of kids could bring a .22 rifle to school and they would do no harm. However, many students, parents, and school employees would not feel safe - and considering recent events that is not surprising.

We are more aware, yes, but school shootings were exceeding rare back in the day and most were related to one target, robbery, or accidental.

I don't know if this was the incident that did in rifle teams, but in 1974 this happened (wiki was just the top link - if anyone has information that any of this is untrue please share):

List of school shootings in the United States (before 2000) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

December 30, 1974

Olean, New York

3 (including a pregnant woman)

11

Olean High School shooting: During a two-and-a-half-hour siege, 17-year-old honor student Anthony Barbaro, the best on his rifle team, killed three adults, one pregnant, in and around his high school and wounded eleven others.[186][187] He shot from the windows at the street and neighborhood. The school was closed for the Christmas holiday.[188] Barbaro committed suicide in prison before he could stand trial.

It seems that beginning in the 1960's and up until Columbine that there were maybe 1 or 2 or at most a few mass school shootings and many more not related to schools.

Now we are having one at least every other year and victims are chosen randomly.

But then way back we did have segregation and lynchings and so on and so forth.

The crappiness of society has changed and in some ways is worse.

We are probably also more aware of it.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

To me there's a big difference between truly ribbing your true friends and bullying and most everyone knows the difference so I don't like the comparison at all.

I also don't think kids are "overly sensitive". I think we are sometimes more aware and they are usually better at expressing the effects of their experiences. At least some people in society have learned that bullying does not toughen kids up. Leadership and guidance do that. Bullying tears them down. Many people recognize that but others do not. I wish we could make more progress in that area. Bullying is no more good at toughening a kid up than workplace harassment is in making one a more productive employee.

I think that if it were acceptable today that the vast majority of kids could bring a .22 rifle to school and they would do no harm. However, many students, parents, and school employees would not feel safe - and considering recent events that is not surprising.

We are more aware, yes, but school shootings were exceeding rare back in the day and most were related to one target, robbery, or accidental.

I don't know if this was the incident that did in rifle teams, but in 1974 this happened (wiki was just the top link - if anyone has information that any of this is untrue please share):

List of school shootings in the United States (before 2000) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

December 30, 1974

Olean, New York

3 (including a pregnant woman)

11

Olean High School shooting: During a two-and-a-half-hour siege, 17-year-old honor student Anthony Barbaro, the best on his rifle team, killed three adults, one pregnant, in and around his high school and wounded eleven others.[186][187] He shot from the windows at the street and neighborhood. The school was closed for the Christmas holiday.[188] Barbaro committed suicide in prison before he could stand trial.

It seems that beginning in the 1960's and up until Columbine that there were maybe 1 or 2 or at most a few mass school shootings and many more not related to schools.



Now we are having one at least every other year and victims are chosen randomly.

But then way back we did have segregation and lynchings and so on and so forth.

The crappiness of society has changed and in some ways is worse.

We are probably also more aware of it.

Would you say that school shootings are up due to a 24/7 news cycle and maybe a copycat factor or something else?

 

[NationalTitles18]

Would you say that school shootings are up due to a 24/7 news cycle and maybe a copycat factor or something else?

I'm not going to say that has no influence; however, I think it would be naïve to search for such a simple answer.

Much more likely, it is multifactorial with some more society changes and I believe more and more that one or more environmental factors may be playing a role like lead seems to have in the past with crime and other developmental issues in general. Specifically, I grow more and more suspicious of phthalate plasticizers and their known detrimental effects on children combined with their increased ubiquity during the time period. There are studies of high quality to support the lead theory and plasticizers in general as they relate to development and behavior; so before anyone calls me crazy just remember I didn't pull that out of my backside with nothing to base it on.

 

[dtgreg]

actually violence, including gun violence has been on the decline for decades though I believe that there has been a fairly recent uptick we are still no where near historic levels. The difference now, imo, is the massive exposure to it via 24/7 media and there has seemingly been an increase in mass shooting incidents.

I will say we have a massive toxic masculinity problem in this country and we are exporting that problem around the world.

When I was a kid, adults fist fighting drunk at a ball game was every single game. They would sometimes meet in a field after, cars would form a circle and when the sun went down, the headlights would illuminate the spectacle. Violence was SO much more common than today. Fistfights could break out anywhere at any time. Convenience stores, restaurants, laundromats, etc. Ususally they'd "take it outside", but not always.

Life was harder, shorter and more brutish and we had been through a ten year depression and WW2 and Korea and were going through 'Nam. The culture was "you have to be strong to survive and don't take nuthin off nobody." You didn't have that much to live for, anyway. We were a much poorer county and society. Coach Bryant's teams, until MAYBE the '70's, exemplified these tenets.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

When I was a kid, adults fist fighting drunk at a ball game was every single game. They would sometimes meet in a field after, cars would form a circle and when the sun went down, the headlights would illuminate the spectacle. Violence was SO much more common than today. Fistfights could break out anywhere at any time. Convenience stores, restaurants, laundromats, etc. Ususally they'd "take it outside", but not always.

Life was harder, shorter and more brutish and we had been through a ten year depression and WW2 and Korea and were going through 'Nam. The culture was "you have to be strong to survive and don't take nuthin off nobody." You didn't have that much to live for, anyway. We were a much poorer county and society. Coach Bryant's teams, until MAYBE the '70's, exemplified these tenets.

I'm even older, but I'll agree in the main. I had a number of fist fights growing up. When it was at the school, the teachers didn't even intervene. I've told the story here before, but my first serious neighborhood fight, I found out as an adult that my mother and older sister watched - and didn't intervene, because I was winning. Gun violence has trended down for decades, despite the increasing number of firearms. However, the mass shootings, as has been noted, are rising and they are eye-catching because of the news cycle, but also because of the types of victims...

 

[Bazza]

What are we telling our children today - that parents didn't need to tell their children in the 50's and 60's?

Why can't the rest of the world be "family friendly" - like our forum?

Why do we have/need 5 pinned threads informing us of forum policy/procedure/rules?

https://www.tidefans.com/forums/threads/new-board-no-politics.302481/

https://www.tidefans.com/forums/threads/board-changes.317685/

https://www.tidefans.com/forums/threads/name-calling-bashing-shaming-and-personal-attacks.281470/

https://www.tidefans.com/forums/threads/must-read-enter-at-your-own-risk.89857/

https://www.tidefans.com/forums/threads/on-anonymity-and-tidefans.92884/

Yes, I realize we didn't have the Internet back in the 50's and 60's - not like we do today. But it's much more than that.

The Internet has changed us forever.

Seems our value system has changed. Of course, that's moot depending on one's sense of values.

For me - most of what has happened, whether you consider it good, bad, or indifferent - is because of money.

We have developed INDUSTRIES from many of our institutions. Education, law enforcement, judicial system, news reporting, and politics being some right off the top of my head.

Just some of my thoughts, for what it's worth.....

 

[Bazza]

I left one out.

College Athletics. Revenue has always been important - and rightly so.

But how is it now players are getting paid now to go to a particular school? And it isn't NIL...it's pay.....

 

[TrueCrimson7]

It has decayed in line with home unit instability and lack of basic instruction of right and wrong. Standards of civility and truth matter but are being de-emphasized.

And we can disagree peaceably without name-calling or recommendations for violence ensuing…both of which have been accelerated by new-age politicians and cable news outlets.

 

[NationalTitles18]

I was under the impression DzynKingRTR was tying the discussion to moral decay as it relates to violence like mass shootings. Now I'm doubly confused.

 

[92tide]

a lot of implied and explicit violence has come out of the rw propaganda machine over the last 30+ years. that always seems to get overlooked

 

[NationalTitles18]

Standards of civility and truth matter but are being de-emphasized.

I nearly completely agree with you, but there is a segment of society that has completely abandoned civility and truth. Yes, truth has always at times been stretched and even cast aside, but the problem has grown so much worse.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

I was under the impression DzynKingRTR was tying the discussion to moral decay as it relates to violence like mass shootings. Now I'm doubly confused.

While yes my initial intent was the moral decay as it relates to school shootings, I expected some thread drift into other discussions on the subject of moral decay as it relates to society as a whole.

 

[92tide]

While yes my initial intent was the moral decay as it relates to school shootings, I expected some thread drift into other discussions on the subject of moral decay as it relates to society as a whole.

i’ll go ahead and bring up nickleback

 

[J0eW]

I am an old dude too, bumping on sunset, and it appears that norms have gone through multiple changes since I was in K through K 12. I had a few fist fights but nothing worse than black eyes or bloody noses. Of course I was in Parochial school and corporal punishment was doled out by teachers on a regular basis.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

i’ll go ahead and bring up nickleback

You should be banned for making us all think of nickleback.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

I was under the impression DzynKingRTR was tying the discussion to moral decay as it relates to violence like mass shootings. Now I'm doubly confused.

People measure moral decay in different ways.

Two steps forward, one step back. We no longer burn witches or have public lynchings but now we glorify gun violence even when it’s out of control.

I think the impending environmental disaster dwarfs any challenge this country has faced yet, I hope we are up to it. The stakes have never been higher.

 

[crimsonaudio]

You should be banned for making us all think of nickleback.

 

[92tide]

the name has now been mentioned 3 times.