How do we get a presidential candidate who will get (almost) the entire country behind him/her?

Bazza

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Finally someone who nails it about all the BS about how divided we are.

It's all about ratings. In other words - a big load of manure.

Rubbernecking - I mean - what's a NASCAR race with a few wrecks?


We need to take their mic away....
 

Bazza

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"The longest journey starts with the first step."

I just re-watched this and am still not sure how much this will help. But my takeaway is people are fed up with both the Republican and Democratic Parties and are trying to figure out an alternative.

Politics has become WAY too much of an industry - and unfortunately the best interest of the folks is no longer being represented.

I'm right there with them. And as I said in my first post - the country right now is ripe for a better choice than what we are getting...

 

CrimsonJazz

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I've been thinking about 2024 and considering some possibilities that seem unlikely, but you never know. Let's start with the assumption that Biden is out. This is reasonable all things considered. So what if the next election had not one, but two flips for VP? Would Newsom take a hard look at Liz Cheney? It makes sense. That is a Lincoln Project dream ticket (I think.) And lets also assume Trump is out, too. He's no spring chicken either and if I had his money, there's no way I'd waste my time chasing political office when I have that kind of retirement money to spend. Throw in all the baggage he brings to the table, and I think it's clear he should hang up his cleats. That leaves DeSantis and who? Why not Tulsi Gabbard? I think those two could work together. Both tickets would have some appeal to moderate independents and they are your swing voters. Something to ponder....
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I've been thinking about 2024 and considering some possibilities that seem unlikely, but you never know. Let's start with the assumption that Biden is out. This is reasonable all things considered. So what if the next election had not one, but two flips for VP? Would Newsom take a hard look at Liz Cheney? It makes sense. That is a Lincoln Project dream ticket (I think.) And lets also assume Trump is out, too. He's no spring chicken either and if I had his money, there's no way I'd waste my time chasing political office when I have that kind of retirement money to spend. Throw in all the baggage he brings to the table, and I think it's clear he should hang up his cleats. That leaves DeSantis and who? Why not Tulsi Gabbard? I think those two could work together. Both tickets would have some appeal to moderate independents and they are your swing voters. Something to ponder....
I'll just repeat that Cheney is one of the most conservative members of congress. She and Newsom are like oil and water. It makes no sense whatsoever...
 

CrimsonJazz

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I'll just repeat that Cheney is one of the most conservative members of congress. She and Newsom are like oil and water. It makes no sense whatsoever...
Right, but this thread was created with the idea of a ticket appealing to a large majority rather than a scant majority. The VP doesn't really do much compared to the president, but having a neocon on the ticket will bring you a lot of establishment Republicans and quite a few independents (presumably.) I'm just engaging in some out-of-the-box thinking since moderates are clearly on the endangered list. That leaves the option of two candidates who are diametrically opposed on most things, but with an agenda they can agree on: defeating the America First movement. The media can easily sit on her voting record. She is absolutely despised by the MAGA folk in the country; that alone is a powerful image. And image is everything in a country where people vote with their hearts and not their heads. A DeSantis/Gabbard ticket is equally unlikely (and if you want to go there, equally ridiculous.) I just thought this was a fun thought experiment.
 
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crimsonaudio

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Right, but this thread was created with the idea of a ticket appealing to a large majority rather than a scant majority. The VP doesn't really do much compared to the president, but having a neocon on the ticket will bring you a lot of establishment Republicans and quite a few independents (presumably.) I'm just engaging in some out-of-the-box thinking since moderates are clearly on the endangered list. That leaves the option of two candidates who are diametrically opposed on most things, but with an agenda they can agree on: defeating the America First movement. The media can easily sit on her voting record. She is absolutely despised by the MAGA folk in the country; that alone is a powerful image. And image is everything in a country where people vote with their hearts and not their heads. A DeSantis/Gabbard ticket is equally unlikely (and if you want to go there, equally ridiculous.) I just thought this was a fun thought experiment.
I just don't see a reality where any conservatives (or many moderates) vote for Newsom.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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I just don't see a reality where any conservatives (or many moderates) vote for Newsom.
I'll admit, it's crazy, but I've become so jaded, nothing really surprises me anymore. In some ways, I kind of hate this, but for the most part, it does shield me from the emotional impact of a lot of what we see and hear. Expect the worst and you'll never be disappointed, I suppose. It stands to reason that one could expect the most illogical and never be disappointed as well.
 
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Diogenes

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"The longest journey starts with the first step."

I just re-watched this and am still not sure how much this will help. But my takeaway is people are fed up with both the Republican and Democratic Parties and are trying to figure out an alternative.

Politics has become WAY too much of an industry - and unfortunately the best interest of the folks is no longer being represented.

I'm right there with them. And as I said in my first post - the country right now is ripe for a better choice than what we are getting...

Matthew McConaughey gives me hope

Winston Churchill once famously observed that Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Right, but this thread was created with the idea of a ticket appealing to a large majority rather than a scant majority. The VP doesn't really do much compared to the president, but having a neocon on the ticket will bring you a lot of establishment Republicans and quite a few independents (presumably.) I'm just engaging in some out-of-the-box thinking since moderates are clearly on the endangered list. That leaves the option of two candidates who are diametrically opposed on most things, but with an agenda they can agree on: defeating the America First movement. The media can easily sit on her voting record. She is absolutely despised by the MAGA folk in the country; that alone is a powerful image. And image is everything in a country where people vote with their hearts and not their heads. A DeSantis/Gabbard ticket is equally unlikely (and if you want to go there, equally ridiculous.) I just thought this was a fun thought experiment.
So you nominate two individuals roundly despised by a majority of the population, when the two wings are taken together?
 
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CrimsonJazz

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So you nominate two individuals roundly despised by a majority of the population, when the two wings are taken together?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but hey! Besides, I'm convinced with the right marketing most people in this country can be convinced of damn near anything. The mad scientist in me wants to test this theory. What's the worst that could happen? Wait, don't answer that.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Hint: people don't vote for Vice-President.

Right, but this thread was created with the idea of a ticket appealing to a large majority rather than a scant majority. The VP doesn't really do much compared to the president, but having a neocon on the ticket will bring you a lot of establishment Republicans and quite a few independents (presumably.)
This is absolutely 100% false at every level - and has been proven over and over and over again.

I heard this nonsense in 2008 when a bunch of people were proposing Chuck Hagel as Obama's running mate. And people won't listen when you tell them, it doesn't work that way. Furthermore, consider the snotty arrogance that is inherent in that statement, because this is what you're saying:

"If we will run a sorta conservative as the VP nominee, those stupid Republicans/conservatives/whatever will be just fine with voting for someone at the head of the ticket that they oppose between 65 and 95% of the time." Aside from which, you then have a major problem with your own party will go crazy, too. How many times in the last 50 years has what you are proposing been tried or floated?

In 1976, some fella named Reagan figured that he could snatch the moderates by picking Richard Schweiker, a pretty liberal (but pro-life) Senator from PA as an effort to take the nomination from Gerald Ford. Do you recall what happened? The hard right in his party went overboard FROM RONALD REAGAN!!! He picked Schweiker, and the delegates went bonkers over "what if Reagan dies in office, we're stuck with this guy." And Ford got the nomination from the Convention.

Of course, you can object because that WAS a unique situation.

But what did Dukakis do in 1988? He picked Texas Senator Lloyd Bentsen? WHY did he pick Bentsen? Because he wasn't Jesse Jackson, that's why. He wanted to pick either Richard Gephardt or (more probably) Al Gore as his running mate, but good luck going to the DNC with "yeah, I know the black guy finished second, but I'm gonna pick the guy who finished third as my running mate and insist race has nothing to do with it." That's why it was so hilarious to hear how Bentsen was gonna bring conservatives into the fold. He was pro-life, he was big defense spending, he was pro-contra, he was anti-gun control. He was everything you'd want a REPUBLICAN nominee to be. But he also had the potential of bringing in the 29 electoral votes Texas had, too.

Texas didn't swallow what the Boston liberal was proposing, and they never will. Bentsen won his Senate seat, wiped the floor in the debate with Dan Quayle, who 80% of folks never wanted to be President, and Bush won 426 electoral votes.

Or maybe when Senator Kerry wanted Senator McCain as his running mate in 2004. Of course, by 2008, he reverted to "that man is crazy," which tells me more about Kerry than it does about anyone else (and confirms he's what I always knew him to be).




I'm just engaging in some out-of-the-box thinking since moderates are clearly on the endangered list. That leaves the option of two candidates who are diametrically opposed on most things, but with an agenda they can agree on: defeating the America First movement.
And then they can spend the rest of the race answering questions about all the things they disagree upon. That's the big reason Bush didn't pick Tom Ridge (PA Governor) in 2000, because he didn't want to spend the last 3 months talking about abortion. Dukakis actually handled it pretty well, but it has never made sense that he picked Bentsen, who didn't even carry Texas (though he won his Senate race) over John Glenn, far more liberal and the most popular vote-getter (at the time) in the history of the state of Ohio.

The media can easily sit on her voting record.
What does this mean?

The media is SUPPOSED to be calling balls and strikes and not putting their thumbs on the scale, which is laughable. Every one of them may as well be wearing campaign buttons for whom they're voting because it's obvious to the rest of us.


She is absolutely despised by the MAGA folk in the country; that alone is a powerful image.
Somehow, "I'm gonna pick someone as my running mate who can't even win her own state" is not the message you want to send.

And image is everything in a country where people vote with their hearts and not their heads. A DeSantis/Gabbard ticket is equally unlikely (and if you want to go there, equally ridiculous.) I just thought this was a fun thought experiment.
It's like the 1990s Atlanta Braves - you couldn't beat them...on paper.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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I would like to announce my decision to run for president of the united states. My first act will be to make it illegal to wear or be orange.
Mr. President, since we are on the verge of a food shortage, may I humbly suggest we subsidize a farming program that provides Brawndo energy drinks for irrigation? (It has electrolytes.)
 
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Bazza

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Right, but this thread was created with the idea of a ticket appealing to a large majority rather than a scant majority. ---snip---
Yep - think unconventionally. What ticket would absolutely blow people away with creativity? It's a long way 'till 2024 so who knows what will happen.

We all know what we are up against.

Party politics.

It's what has hurt this country more than anything.

To be honest - I don't see it changing.

As I have said repeatedly - too much money involved.

Politics has become a HUGE industry - and we are all hostages to it all.

The fact that there are people sparring with each other over politics says it all.

It's not us against us. It's us against them.

223080078_1580941075595390_1463997941955213623_n.jpg
 
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selmaborntidefan

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I've been thinking about 2024 and considering some possibilities that seem unlikely, but you never know. Let's start with the assumption that Biden is out. This is reasonable all things considered. So what if the next election had not one, but two flips for VP? Would Newsom take a hard look at Liz Cheney? It makes sense. That is a Lincoln Project dream ticket (I think.)
I seriously doubt Gavin Newsom would win a Democratic primary, but I'll play along and show you further why this is a disaster at every level.

Let's suppose Newsom is drunk and carrying on with an underage cheerleader the night he clears the threshold for nomination and is presented with Liz Cheney. WHY.....would he pick Liz Cheney?

1) She has no relevant foreign policy experience to cover the gaps in his resume.
2) She's not even a guarantee to carry Wyoming on a Democratic ticket
3) The liberal interest groups that largely influence the primary vote will lose their collective intestines.

Because imagine this scenario.

It's 2026, and the GOP owns the Senate. Barely, but they've got it. Clarence Thomas is legit impeached for conflict of interest on 1/6. And this occurs AFTER Newsom has a heart attack with the underage cheerleader and assumes room temperature, and Cheney is now the President. She's STILL a conservative in principle. (Her position on these hearings and Trump are, in fact, based on her conservative principles at a time too many others are being way too pragmatic for my blood).

McConnell sees a chance to replace the now 75-year old Thomas with a 40-year old judge, so he gets the GOP to go along on throwing Thomas out of office. Cheney replaces Thomas with the judge about half his age, and all of a sudden Alito and Roberts decide they want to spend more time with their children coach Ohio State in football. Cheney signs off on two more young judges, two rated qualified by the ABA, which she tries to bring back. You suddenly have SIX YOUNG conservative judges, which means you can lose one of your justices and still get your way.

You think the nominating wing of the Democratic Party isn't going to reherase that nightmare scenario in their heads, especially in a post-RBG world?

======================================

I think myself an old-fashioned American. I WANT to believe in our processes, I accept we are a proud and flawed nation that at times takes too long to get around to some things maybe we should do earlier. I'm a firm believer in divided government as a safeguard against tyranny - and yeah, maybe I look at it differently because I DID live in Germany during the Cold War (less than 40 years from the end of WW2). If you were to ask me personally what I think is probably my own personal favorite type setup, it would be the first six years of the Reagan Presidency (GOP President to the right who understands he has to move to the middle on some things, a solidly Democratic House, and a barely GOP Senate) or the late Clinton years minus the Lewinsky scandal. (Yes, I said it). We need it so there HAS to be some give-and-take. And a court that moves almost like a person driving a car, slight move to the right, slight move to the left, nothing extreme in either direction. As GHW Bush said about Souter, "If I disagree with how he rules on something, so be it."

But that REQUIRES a valid two-party system. And right now, we don't have one, at least beyond theory. I chuckle at the charge "the Republicans only care about power" as if the Democrats don't. However, the Democrats at least are trying to do this. Yes, it's messy - because a functioning democracy IS a messy thing. I disagree with a lot of the things they do, but they're at least TRYING to have some elections with some level of substance.

The GOP, on the other hand, is burning to the ground the very things they once professed and even practiced (such as when they informed Nixon there were enough Republicans to remove him from office). As Rick Wilson and George Will (conservatives both) have said, "The Republican Party is the only group of people in America afraid of their own voters." They remind me of the Jack Warden character (Big Ben Healy) in the first Problem Child movie, where he poses as this "America for the Americans" candidate for mayor and is then caught on tape saying he'd sell his soul to the Japanese if they made him an offer.

=======================================

The larger point?

Liz Cheney adds zero to a Democratic ticket.
Not one vote.
Not one state.

And Newsom would spend the rest of the race trying to explain how having her as his successor is a good thing.

And her downside among the liberals, I mean, who could blame them from setting themselves on fire in the streets if Cheney got picked?

And finally...the current VP is a former California Senator, which makes bypassing her for a white male governor a pretty suicidal venture in the first place. If you really wanna depress the black turnout for the Democrats, just replace a black female former VP with a white guy whose running mate is a Republican. You'd have to explain not only why he's ahead of her but also why Cheney moved in line ahead of her.

I honestly know you mean well, but this has "we are trying to lose the election" written all over it.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Yep - think unconventionally. What ticket would absolutely blow people away with creativity? It's a long way 'till 2024 so who knows what will happen.

We all know what we are up against.

Party politics.

It's what has hurt this country more than anything.

To be honest - I don't see it changing.

As I have said repeatedly - too much money involved.

Politics has become a HUGE industry - and we are all hostages to it all.

The fact that there are people sparring with each other over politics says it all.

It's not us against us. It's us against them.

View attachment 26986
And the genesis of that is - "Citizens United"...
 
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selmaborntidefan

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In 1964, LBJ actually toyed with the idea of putting a guy he personally thought was the best qualified man to be President on his ticket. A former head of Ford Motor Company and Defense Secretary - and Republican - Robert McNamara. His intent or so he said was to have the best qualified person in the US as President in case something happened to LBJ, who had had a heart attack in 1955. He called in Richard Daley and went over all this stuff.

Daley basically told him that he was the President and could do whatever he wanted but given his health concerns - did he REALLY want to turn the country over to a Republican if the worst happened?

A century before that, some Republican guy on the $5 bill picked a Democrat in his efforts to unify the country with the Civil War coming to an end, and it was an unmitigated disaster on every level.


It's a good paper theory.


But neither party would ever stand for it in this day and age. The only reason there wasn't a come apart in 1988 with the Democrats was because the alternative was Jesse Jackson, which reminds me of another story from 1992.

In no way do I disagree with the reality of "nobody votes for VP," but every once in awhile you can find a candidate so distasteful that the paper theory might work. (But then I remember Trump actually won). Jerry Brown - in NEW YORK of all places - declared he wanted Jackson as his running mate. The same Jackson who had used an ethnic slur against the Jews in 1984 and been endorsed by Farrakhan. Jackson, who was mad at Clinton for several things but really had no intention of being Brown's #2 guy, smiled and was coy about it. And overnight, as Carville and Begala put it, Brown's polling numbers among Jewish voters dropped into the single digits. At one point, Brown was telling a voter, "But I'm going to be the President and making the decisions," at which point one activist snorted, "But what if you DIE, governor!"
 

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