How good is Borussia Dortmund?

[DogPatch]

Haven't been following European soccer very long at all, but with Champions League and transfers, I'm trying to get up to speed. So, with that being said . . .

Dortmund seems to be in negotiations with Man United on a transfer for Jadon Sancho for around 90M euros. Man City look to be submitting a bid for Erling Haaland for around 110M euros. The hold up, or at least a big part of the hold up from what I've read is that Dortmund don't want to lose both during this transfer window because they don't want to miss out on making the Champions League next year.

I understand that concern, BUT with 200M euros in their pockets shouldn't they be able to bring in a couple of established players AND buy some young talent to set them up for next year and years to come?

OR

Would the 200M euros offset any losses from not making Champions League next year?

OR . . .

I guess what I'm wondering is are they good enough to qualify next year without Sancho and Haaland? Big ask, I know, but I don't know how strong their competition is in the Bundesliga.

 

[AUDub]

Historically they're a top 2 club in Germany's top flight. Klopp cut his teeth there in fact and there most recent win of the Bundesliga came under his watch. But there's a huge gap between Bayern Munich and the rest of the field.

I understand that concern, BUT with 200M euros in their pockets shouldn't they be able to bring in a couple of established players AND buy some young talent to set them up for next year and years to come?

It's a "bird in the hand" type of situation. Haaland and Sancho are only 21 and 20, respectively.

Would the 200M euros offset any losses from not making Champions League next year?

Doesn't all boil down to "money, my dear boy." They want trophies too lol.

If they ever want to win the Bundesliga again, then they must put performance before short term finances. Having tons of cash is good when you can use it for paying debt or improving your team, but they are one of the most financially healthy clubs in Europe and finding a replacement, especially on Haaland's level, is a really tough ask.

I guess what I'm wondering is are they good enough to qualify next year without Sancho and Haaland? Big ask, I know, but I don't know how strong their competition is in the Bundesliga.

Top 4 would be a tough ask. They'd be prepping for Euro League or for no Europe at all unless they strike gold in the transfer market.

 

[OakMtn4Bama]

They have been solid for years. Have a reputation for nurturing young talent and improving them. But losing their top two talents would create almost too much of a hole to dig out of in the short term. One problem with not making the CL playoffs is that top players hesitate to join a team that isn't in the playoffs. It is sort of a Catch-22. 200 mil could go a long way though. They might be tempted to take it.

 

[DogPatch]

They have been solid for years. Have a reputation for nurturing young talent and improving them. But losing their top two talents would create almost too much of a hole to dig out of in the short term. One problem with not making the CL playoffs is that top players hesitate to join a team that isn't in the playoffs. It is sort of a Catch-22. 200 mil could go a long way though. They might be tempted to take it.

It's the 200 million euro question. If I was a Premier League (or any other league) team, I would break the bank to sign whoever is identifying/signing young talent for Dortmund. From what little I've learned, they seem to be doing well in that regard, as evidenced by the potential money they could receive form Sancho and, most likely later, Haaland transfers.

 

[AUDub]

Not to derail but on the Bundesliga in general Bayern Munich is really serious about signing Justin Che from FC Dallas. He played in Germany earlier this year on a loan for Bayern's reserve side and pulled major first team minutes.. Yet another fast rising American prospect looking to go overseas to develop.

 

[AUDub]

It's the 200 million euro question. If I was a Premier League (or any other league) team, I would break the bank to sign whoever is identifying/signing young talent for Dortmund. From what little I've learned, they seem to be doing well in that regard, as evidenced by the potential money they could receive form Sancho and, most likely later, Haaland transfers.

Another problem is that they want to be seen as a destination club rather than a developmental or stepping stone club.

 

[DogPatch]

Another problem is that they want to be seen as a destination club rather than a developmental or stepping stone club.

They seem to be well on their way. If they could hang on to Haaland and Sancho, it would go a long way toward helping achieve that goal.

 

[OakMtn4Bama]

The EPL must spend the budget of a third world country on scouting and grooming talent. I know Chelsea does. The top clubs seem to be aware of nearly every child in the world who has talent/potential.

 

[AUDub]

The EPL must spend the budget of a third world country on scouting and grooming talent. I know Chelsea does. The top clubs seem to be aware of nearly every child in the world who has talent/potential.

A lot of it is on us too. There've been a lot of changes in the organizational structure of US soccer and now you're finally starting to see those changes bearing fruit. MLS and USL are finally becoming a respectable leagues and the scouting structure and developmental academies are coming into their own. Birmingham Legion FC works with pretty much all of the local clubs' developmental academies and my daughter has spent time at Trussville United under their coaches. Trevor Spangenberg, a keeper for Legion, has personally coached her, as has Kelsey Daugherty, a former UAB keeper that has UEFA Women's Champion's League caps for Fortuna Hjørring in Denmark.

As a result more kids find themselves on the radar than ever, and as the sport keeps growing in popularity we'll have kids choosing to stick with soccer rather than go the football, basketball or baseball route.

Guys like Dike, Che, Pulisic and Reyna have all spent time in US clubs during their youth careers. Give it another 10 years and we could very well find the men a perennial top 5 in the FIFA rankings given our remarkable progress since we missed out on the last world cup final.

Thing that's sort of disappointing for me is that NCAA and high school soccer are kind of falling by the wayside, and I'm trying to push my 14 year old keeper to go the varsity route as we speak lol.

 

[OakMtn4Bama]

"as the sport keeps growing in popularity we'll have kids choosing to stick with soccer rather than go the football, basketball or baseball route."

This is what I have hoped would happen. We are started to see the first inklings of it. Soccer is much more available around the country at the youth level, and many parents are concerned about allowing children to play football.

There is absolutely no reason that the US shouldn't develop into a soccer power.

 

[AUDub]

"as the sport keeps growing in popularity we'll have kids choosing to stick with soccer rather than go the football, basketball or baseball route."

This is what I have hoped would happen. We are started to see the first inklings of it. Soccer is much more available around the country at the youth level, and many parents are concerned about allowing children to play football.

There is absolutely no reason that the US shouldn't develop into a soccer power.

I have major issues with US youth soccer, though. Pay to play still rules the day. Getting your kid on a club with proper coaching and all that costs a lot of money.

It's kind of an inherent problem with how sports are structured in this country vs across the pond. Major league sports here are a "franchise" model, while in Europe they'll generally be a "club" model.

People hear all about the big clubs like the Manchester Uniteds and Real Madrids of the world, but there are literally thousands of local clubs in those countries that have great local support ("It's our little hamlets club!") and hope of development and climbing the pyramid. So they already had great groundwork by nature. Pulisic, for instance, started his youth career at 6th level Brackley Town, a club you've likely never heard of unless you're familiar with non-league soccer.

Here in America we kind of had to work backwards. To our credit it's getting way better but the fact that money=access still hampers us to a degree.

 

[OakMtn4Bama]

We are gradually starting to see better coaching at the major high schools, but the colleges can't compete with the pay for play "travel" teams. Kids will bypass college which is sad, but I think the talent and coaching will keep trending up. I think "our" Bham Legion team will be a huge benefit to local soccer.

 

[DogPatch]

I really hate travel teams.

 

[AUDub]

I really hate travel teams.

Have their place but we need to do more to ensure access.

 

[DogPatch]

Have their place but we need to do more to ensure access.

I disagree. Travel teams ruined my sons' little league teams and leagues.

 

[OakMtn4Bama]

We have to find some sort of balance. Now, the good players, who can afford it, move to the travel teams leaving the rest of the kids on their own. It greatly decreases the caliber of play and the opportunity for the rest to meet tougher competition, thereby raising the whole boat. DP, you stay up too late

 

[AUDub]

I disagree. Travel teams ruined my sons' little league teams and leagues.

Oh trust me I'm very familiar with poaching at this point. Sadie's team has had 3 players poached by BUSA, er, Alabama FC, the ECNL team. Hell they're actively trying to recruit her. She's that good in goal. She prefers to stick with her friends, though, and thank goodness because ECNL would break us. Imagine flying to Orlando for just 2 games lol.

And that's the biggest problem. Money. BUSA's coaching is quite good but cost prohibitive.

Hell, it's difficult to get licensed as a coach. I hold a USSF class D license myself, so I'm actually qualified to coach a competitive team. Just not worth the money for me to go further though lol.

 

[AUDub]

Main problem with big league travel soccer is that it's viewed as a business rather than an investment. Tournaments are the crowning achievement, which makes the main incentive winning rather than development. This encourages bad habits among the kids and the coaches. You know, just boom it to the fastest individual on the team and watch them outrun the defense.

Big clubs are getting better about this though.

 

[OakMtn4Bama]

Main problem with big league travel soccer is that it's viewed as a business rather than an investment. Tournaments are the crowning achievement, which makes the main incentive winning rather than development. This encourages bad habits among the kids and the coaches. You know, just boom it to the fastest individual on the team and watch them outrun the defense.

Big clubs are getting better about this though.

You nailed it

 

[DogPatch]

Main problem with big league travel soccer is that it's viewed as a business rather than an investment. Tournaments are the crowning achievement, which makes the main incentive winning rather than development. This encourages bad habits among the kids and the coaches. You know, just boom it to the fastest individual on the team and watch them outrun the defense.

Big clubs are getting better about this though.

That's what I hated when I coached little league baseball. I made it a point for fun and development, so I rotated ALL players into every game. I got so tired of travel parents asking why their kids had to come out of games "like everybody else."