Indonesia plane crash: All 189 passengers presumed dead in latest aviation disaster (Oct 2018)

[jthomas666]

Those guys are lucky to be alive. That was a very odd series of transmissions. Seems like they would have gone immediately back to the airport with an engine out.

From the sound of things, the second engine was having issues as well. Without full power, and at that low altitude, sudden course changes would bleed off too much air speed.

 

[AUDub]

From the sound of things, the second engine was having issues as well. Without full power, and at that low altitude, sudden course changes would bleed off too much air speed.

Something went very wrong. Even a legacy 737 should be able to limp back with one engine.

 

[NationalTitles18]

From the sound of things, the second engine was having issues as well. Without full power, and at that low altitude, sudden course changes would bleed off too much air speed.

Which is why turning back with one engine still running is the obvious choice.

 

[AUDub]

Which is why turning back with one engine still running is the obvious choice.

Since the other engine was struggling, it's a tough call. Would have been a much steeper turn, and that requires adequate thrust to maintain altitude. If you're trying to maintain altitude with a struggling engine you're going to want to bring as much of the plane's ability to provide lift to bear as possible. A steep turn with limited power reduces the plane's ability to stay up a lot.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Since the other engine was struggling, it's a tough call. Would have been a much steeper turn, and that requires adequate thrust to maintain altitude. If you're trying to maintain altitude with a struggling engine you're going to want to bring as much of the plane's ability to provide lift to bear as possible. A steep turn with limited power reduces the plane's ability to stay up a lot.

Yep, sideslip occurs with any banked turn...

 

[Bamaro]

From WSJ

A federal grand jury in Texas indicted a former Boeing pilot, alleging that he deceived air-safety regulators about a flight-control system later blamed for sending two 737 MAX jets into fatal nosedives.

Mark A. Forkner, 49 years old, was charged with six counts of fraud related to his alleged role in persuading the Federal Aviation Administration to approve pilot-training materials that excluded references to the automated cockpit feature, the U.S. Justice Department said Thursday. The crashes occurred in late 2018 and early 2019 and took 346 lives.

 

[NationalTitles18]

From WSJ

I'd like to see the executives get the same treatment.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

From WSJ

That is absurd! One poor fall guy sacrificed. Everyone who had anything material to do with that plane knew the problem. All of them in the chain of command should have been indicted. He was doing what he was ordered to do...

 

[Elefantman]

An interesting paragraph from the WSJ article yesterday:

As part of Boeing’s earlier settlement with the Justice Department, the company was charged with one count of conspiracy to defraud the FAA. Under terms of the settlement, Boeing will avoid prosecution on that charge—and remain eligible for federal contracts—as long as the company avoids legal trouble for a period of three years.

You know the DOJ will not bring any legal action against Boeing for the next three years, so they had to go after this guy. I would not be surprised if he was complicit, but I'm sure he was not alone.

 

[Padreruf]

An interesting paragraph from the WSJ article yesterday:



You know the DOJ will not bring any legal action against Boeing for the next three years, so they had to go after this guy. I would not be surprised if he was complicit, but I'm sure he was not alone.

We love our scapegoats...they make the rest of us feel innocent...

 

[NationalTitles18]

An interesting paragraph from the WSJ article yesterday:



You know the DOJ will not bring any legal action against Boeing for the next three years, so they had to go after this guy. I would not be surprised if he was complicit, but I'm sure he was not alone.

What's done is done, but some executives need to be charged.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Related to aviation, but someone screwed up in regard to 5G. I find it hard to believe this situation was allowed to get to this point.

Aviation Concerns About 5G Will Take Years To Resolve

Enjoy Christmas travel now, but get ready for flight diversions and cancellations after the holidays. In preparation for the rollout of 5G wireless services on January 5, the FAA will issue new rules to protect planes' navigation systems and keep passengers safe.

www.forbes.com

 

[BamaFlum]

Related to aviation, but someone screwed up in regard to 5G. I find it hard to believe this situation was allowed to get to this point.

Aviation Concerns About 5G Will Take Years To Resolve

Enjoy Christmas travel now, but get ready for flight diversions and cancellations after the holidays. In preparation for the rollout of 5G wireless services on January 5, the FAA will issue new rules to protect planes' navigation systems and keep passengers safe.

www.forbes.com

That’s not good. I wonder if there was any indication long enough in advance to know this and to make the carriers keep their distance from airports when installing 5g equipment.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

That’s not good. I wonder if there was any indication long enough in advance to know this and to make the carriers keep their distance from airports when installing 5g equipment.

Really unreal...

 

[2003TIDE]

Multiple countries already operate in the 5G band listed here with no issues

 

[Elefantman]

China Eastern 737-800 crash killing all 132 on board. Not a 737 Max, but still experienced a very rapid descent from cruise altitude.

China Eastern: Plane carrying 132 people crashes in Guangxi hills

The Boeing 737 crashed into a hillside in southern China and there are fears no-one survived.

news.yahoo.com

 

[2003TIDE]

Watching “Downfall The Case Against Boeing” on Netflix right now. Anyone else seen it?

 

[Elefantman]

Recent law suit filed claiming Southwest Airlines influenced how Boeing would write the manuals and training requirements for the 737 Max.

Southwest Airlines More Influential in Early 737 MAX Training Than Previously Known, Legal Filing Shows

Documents cited in a court filing show the carrier worked with Boeing on issues including whether pilots should be trained on a new flight-control system; the airline disputes the claims.

www.wsj.com

During the development of 737 MAX training, the carrier agreed with Boeing to remove from pilot manuals references to a version of the automated flight-control system that in its later form was blamed by accident investigators for two fatal nosedives of the jet, according to the filing, made in a federal lawsuit in Texas.

 

[92tide]

Recent law suit filed claiming Southwest Airlines influenced how Boeing would write the manuals and training requirements for the 737 Max.

Southwest Airlines More Influential in Early 737 MAX Training Than Previously Known, Legal Filing Shows

Documents cited in a court filing show the carrier worked with Boeing on issues including whether pilots should be trained on a new flight-control system; the airline disputes the claims.

www.wsj.com

i guess we will start seeing a bunch of videos showing their flight attendants making funny safety talks

 

[crimsonaudio]

Watching “Downfall The Case Against Boeing” on Netflix right now. Anyone else seen it?

Just finished this - outstanding documentary with the added bonus that it made my blood boil.