Link: It's hard to argue that the CFP has been better than the BCS

B1GTide

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Well it kinda has become less important already under the the BCS and CFP. 5 times a team has either lost or didn’t even play for a conference title and played for a national championship/playoff. 2 times they were declared champs. Then you have Notre Dame.
Define "less important". The B1GCG still decides who goes to the Rose Bowl if the team doesn't make the CFP, and that is a huge deal - as big a deal as it ever was for B1G teams and players. But that just demonstrates how powerful the Rose Bowl is compared to the rest of the Bowl games. Players do not mind missing playing in other Bowl games.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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You keep on saying that 6 people whine about a bye. But in both FCS and the NFL no one whines about it.
1) The parity level in the NFL is so close that the 0-16 team can beat the 16-0 team.
2) in the NFL, you know before the season starts how to get the home field
3) in the FCS - again - you have automatic bids.

As long as there a system in determining the rankings that makes sense, no one of real value is going to whine about the difference of #2 and #3.
No one of real value is going to make a playoff as low as they're wanting to go, either.
 
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81usaf92

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Define "less important". The B1GCG still decides who goes to the Rose Bowl if the team doesn't make the CFP, and that is a huge deal - as big a deal as it ever was for B1G teams and players. But that just demonstrates how powerful the Rose Bowl is compared to the rest of the Bowl games. Players do not mind missing playing in other Bowl games.
Well that’s the thing. Under pre BCS era rules , Wisconsin has 5 less Rose Bowl appearances.

My point is that the conference championship idea was made where the SEC had a leg up on rankings. I mean without it in 92, 96, and 97 the SEC probably doesn’t get the opportunity to play for a nc. Under the BCS the importance of winning that game lessened. 3 times a team either failed to win or play for a conference championship and got to play for a national championship. 01 Nebraska and 03 Oklahoma had no business playing for a national championship yet they did. Under the CFP 17 Alabama won and 16 Ohio St got to play without even having to play.
 
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81usaf92

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No one of real value is going to make a playoff as low as they're wanting to go, either.
my point is this is about viewership not actual competition. This is about preventing 4 teams from constantly winning those 4 spots and allowing wild cards. Give the people wild cards and the argument dwindled significantly before it gets way out of hand.
 

B1GTide

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my point is this is about viewership not actual competition. This is about preventing 4 teams from constantly winning those 4 spots and allowing wild cards. Give the people wild cards and the argument dwindled significantly before it gets way out of hand.
It is clearly going to happen, whether we like it or not. Time to just wait to see what they decide.
 
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Bill from NYC

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Sadly, I think that you are correct.

Imo, expansion is unfair to the players. These kids should not be asked to play 15 or even 16 game seasons. The injury rate in football as we all know is 100%. It's just a matter of how serious and I don't think that the players should have to take an even greater risk of a career ending injury to satisfy fans of teams that are (at least usually) clearly undeserving in the present format.

If they do expand ( and they will, it is only a matter of when), I would love to see them do away with conference championship games. They (imo) are usually unfair to Alabama. Teams such as Clemson and even Ohio State often play cupcake teams in these games. Alabama plays Georgia, Florida, or another solid, if not great team.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I think some of the cries for playoff expansion are aimed specifically at Alabama. The thing is, Coach Saban doesn't have a secret formula. His former assistants are coaching all over the country. They saw what he does and how he does it. The man works 16 hour days a day for most of the year. He looks for certain types of players and is able to recognize the ones who will fit, as well as buy into his system. He keeps them motivated and thinking and training properly. Maybe others should try to copy this.

As always, jmo.

ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Padreruf

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Sadly, I think that you are correct.

Imo, expansion is unfair to the players. These kids should not be asked to play 15 or even 16 game seasons. The injury rate in football as we all know is 100%. It's just a matter of how serious and I don't think that the players should have to take an even greater risk of a career ending injury to satisfy fans of teams that are (at least usually) clearly undeserving in the present format.

If they do expand ( and they will, it is only a matter of when), I would love to see them do away with conference championship games. They (imo) are usually unfair to Alabama. Teams such as Clemson and even Ohio State often play cupcake teams in these games. Alabama plays Georgia, Florida, or another solid, if not great team.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I think some of the cries for playoff expansion are aimed specifically at Alabama. The thing is, Coach Saban doesn't have a secret formula. His former assistants are coaching all over the country. They saw what he does and how he does it. The man works 16 hour days a day for most of the year. He looks for certain types of players and is able to recognize the ones who will fit, as well as buy into his system. He keeps them motivated and thinking and training properly. Maybe others should try to copy this.

As always, jmo.

ROLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The number one argument against increasing the playoffs...thanks for solid articulation!!
 

selmaborntidefan

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Sadly, I think that you are correct.

Imo, expansion is unfair to the players. These kids should not be asked to play 15 or even 16 game seasons. The injury rate in football as we all know is 100%. It's just a matter of how serious and I don't think that the players should have to take an even greater risk of a career ending injury to satisfy fans of teams that are (at least usually) clearly undeserving in the present format.
Good points.

If they do expand ( and they will, it is only a matter of when), I would love to see them do away with conference championship games. They (imo) are usually unfair to Alabama.
Alabama is the only team to win not one but TWO national championships after skipping their conference's championship game........not the best point...

Teams such as Clemson and even Ohio State often play cupcake teams in these games. Alabama plays Georgia, Florida, or another solid, if not great team.
Ohio State lost the 2013 Big Ten title game that would have put them in the national championship game against Florida State. Ohio State in 2016 - like Alabama - had the smarts to skip the title game altogether. That extra prep time no doubt led to them losing by only 31 points to Clemson. In 2017, Ohio State played an UNDEFEATED and #4 and in the playoffs if they win Wisconsin team.

Clemson plays cupcakes in their ACC title game because of the low quality of the conference. That cannot be said most years for Ohio State, and I say this as an unequivocal Buckeye hater (though most of their fans including ours here are classy folks which has softened me just a tad through the years).



Maybe I am paranoid, but I think some of the cries for playoff expansion are aimed specifically at Alabama.
They're aimed mostly at Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, and Ohio State. But I'm willing to concede the reality that football/TV has to be concerned if ratings are plummeting because it's the same game every year.

I know many things contributed to the demise of NASCAR. One of the biggest, though, was the same guy winning the championship every single year for so long (Jimmie Johnson).
 

Bill from NYC

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>>>>>Clemson plays cupcakes in their ACC title game because of the low quality of the conference.<<<<<

Yes. that was exactly my point. It gives them an advantage going into the playoffs. Their star players are able to rest more than ours before the playoff games and are less likely to be injured, no?

>>>>>That cannot be said most years for Ohio State, and I say this as an unequivocal Buckeye hater (though most of their fans including ours here are classy folks which has softened me just a tad through the years).<<
<<<

Maybe not, but the Big 10 is certainly not getting much better these days. Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn State all seem to be going downhill. Wisconsin is about the same every year. The SEC keeps improving, and Alabama keeps on winning. My contention is that fans of inferior teams around the country are jealous.
 

81usaf92

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They're aimed mostly at Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, and Ohio State. But I'm willing to concede the reality that football/TV has to be concerned if ratings are plummeting because it's the same game every year.

I know many things contributed to the demise of NASCAR. One of the biggest, though, was the same guy winning the championship every single year for so long (Jimmie Johnson).
That’s more what I’m getting at. It’s less of an MLB issue in which the Yankees and BoSox wanted to have more games in an overrated rivalry, and more of an issue in which there are few teams killing ratings.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I think anyone who uses LAST YEAR to make ANY kind of argument is a complete tool. I don't disagree that the attempt by the Pac Whatever is pretty selfish, but I'm not sure he's right, either.

Is it the Pac-12 that cannibalizes itself?

2014 - Oregon makes playoff
2015 - Stanford getting knocked out had more to do with losing to Northwestern at a time the Big Ten had THREE legit contenders (Iowa, Sparty, Ohio State)

2016 - Washington makes the playoff

2017 - no team had fewer than two losses, and USC was eliminated by losing to Notre Dame

2018 - you can argue to a point that the Pac-12 killed itself this time.

2019 - Oregon's loss to AUBURN eliminated them, not the in-conference loss; yeah, Oregon eliminated Utah, who who actually thought they were better?


I think his "evidence" of this is one year. That's not much.
 

TideEngineer08

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The PAC 12 sucks.

It’s always sucked outside of USC, 1990-1992 Washington, and 2010 Oregon.

The PAC 12 has always wanted to straddle the fence of academic elitism and athletic prowess.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, PAC 12,

 

uafanataum

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When they get to the part where they need to be fair to all parties and start saying the same teams make the playoff every year I have to start disagreeing with them. It makes me think tgeir idea of fairness will include automatic qualifiers.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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When they get to the part where they need to be fair to all parties and start saying the same teams make the playoff every year I have to start disagreeing with them. It makes me think tgeir idea of fairness will include automatic qualifiers.
One of the things we’ve been considering and looking at is whether the access is right. Are we getting the right teams in and the right numbers?

Well, Oklahoma had no damned business being there in 18 or 19, but whatever.

Is it fair to people that are marginally on the outside looking in?

Let's turn that question around and ask, "Do we want five-loss teams in the playoff?"

The current four-team playoff system has been more functional than previous structures but most years are repetitive with the same programs making an appearance and coming out victorious.

PRE-BCS

ROSE BOWL
1969 - 1980 - Michigan or Ohio State every single year
1966-1986 - UCLA or USC 16 out of 21 years (and most times they didn't was due to probation)

ORANGE BOWL
1976-1998 - Nebraska or Oklahoma all but 4 times - and one of those Nebraska would have gone but the Bowl Alliance was in a different contest. That's 22 of 26 games the same two teams making it.

SUGAR BOWL
1973-1982 Alabama or Georgia all but one time

You had JUST AS MUCH REPETITION prior to the BCS, with the exception of the heavy parity 1980s in the SEC. The only reason you didn't have the same teams facing each other in the bowls year after year was because of bowl game obligation contracts. USC played Ohio State in the Rose Bowl 3 straight years (1972-73-74) and played Michigan twice in 3 years. One more win and it would have been 3 in a row.

BCS ERA
Florida State played in the championship in 1998-1999-2000-2013
Miami played in the championship in 2001-2002 (and folks thought they should have made it in 2000)
Oklahoma played in the championship in 2000-2003-2004-2008
LSU played in the championship game in 2003-2007-2011
Ohio State played in the championship game in 2002-2006-2007 (3 times in 6 years)
USC played in the championship game in 2004-2005 (and folks wanted them in 2003)
Texas played in the championship game in 2005-2009
Florida played in the championship game in 2006-2008 and came within a game in 2009 and 2012
Alabama played in the championship game in 2009-2011-2012
Auburn played in the championship game in 2010-2013 (twice in 4 years)

Every single team that was in the BCS had AT LEAST two appearances in the 16-year history of it except for Tennessee, Nebraska, Oregon, and Notre Dame. Most had either consecutive appearances or three in six years or something like that.

Ohio State was in the BCS title game 3 times in 6 years and in the playoff 3 times in 6 years.
Alabama was in the BCS title game 3 times in 4 years and in the playoff 5 straight years


The reality is that the same teams were always there; you just didn't notice it because they didn't always play each other for the national championship.
 
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