Joint WHO/Chinese government Covid origin report...

[TIDE-HSV]

I agree that, China being China, we'll never find out, nor will the WHO. Tracing back to predict the virus' future is important and that's being done. Searching in China is a dead horse for many reasons...

 

[B1GTide]

I agree that, China being China, we'll never find out, nor will the WHO. Tracing back to predict the virus' future is important and that's being done. Searching in China is a dead horse for many reasons...

I think the same would be the case had it first emerged in Russia. Totalitarian governments really like to keep their secrets, and even when the truth creeps out, it is hard to really trust.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

No one disagrees with this (well, maybe someone somewhere has something to hide or just loves being ignorant).

What I do disagree with is the insinuation that China is responsible for the emergence of the virus and possibly let it escape a lab in Wuhan when we have zero evidence for that being the case.

It is clear to me that there is a concerted effort in this country by a few to distract from their own mismanagement by deflecting blame for what happened here to China.

We should all want to know the true origin of the virus so that we can prevent and mitigate future outbreaks of new CoVs. Imagining what is politically expedient for a few to be the truth without any supporting evidence actually hampers that effort and so is much worse than saying the simple truth: We don't know, but here is the evidence we have to date...

I highly doubt even if that were the case anyone outside of the Chinese government would ever be privy to information that would reveal it. When it comes to China and getting information from within their borders, insinuation, and speculation is all there will ever be.

 

[NationalTitles18]

I highly doubt even if that were the case anyone outside of the Chinese government would ever be privy to information that would reveal it. When it comes to China and getting information from within their borders, insinuation, and speculation is all there will ever be.

Then we will never have enough to seriously make such an allegation.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Then we will never have enough to seriously make such an allegation.

It's a great strategy to conceal any liability if there was any, fo sho. Leave everything to speculation and insinuation.

 

[NationalTitles18]

It's a great strategy to conceal any liability if there was any, fo sho. Leave everything to speculation and insinuation.

A great way to deflect and distract from your own failings is to shift the blame onto someone else, so I get why some are so interested in getting the rubes riled up about it.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

A great way to deflect and distract from your own failings is to shift the blame onto someone else, so I get why some are so interested in getting the rubes riled up about it.

It is not an either-or scenario. Our previous administration did a disastrous job in handling the pandemic on our own soil and it is one of the many reasons they were voted out and are no longer in office. They were publicly scorched, scrutinized over how they handled the pandemic, and ultimately voted out of office. I don't think that is "deflecting". Our country handled that issue and voted it out of office.

Now there are those (not just Americans) who want more answers to the origin of the virus, how and where it transmitted to humans, and what those closest to it knew or didn't know etc. I'm not sure why wanting answers to questions about a virus that has killed 132,000,000 people worldwide bothers some people.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Then we will never have enough to seriously make such an allegation.

Exactly what i expect...

 

[B1GTide]

Now there are those (not just Americans) who want more answers to the origin of the virus, how and where it transmitted to humans, and what those closest to it knew or didn't know etc. I'm not sure why wanting answers to questions about a virus that has killed 132,000,000 people worldwide bothers some people.

Everyone wants answers, but not everyone is looking for someone to blame. I want answers so we can be better prepared for the next one - possibly head it off altogether. I have zero interest in blaming someone for this.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Everyone wants answers, but not everyone is looking for someone to blame. I want answers so we can be better prepared for the next one - possibly head it off altogether. I have zero interest in blaming someone for this.

I agree, as an auditor/accountant for 20+ years, I've always been taught to let the answers to the questions and evidence gathered lead to an opinion, not formulate the opinion then seek out the answers and evidence that support it.

We can agree that to be better prepared for "next time" or to keep "next time" from happening, there needs to be some form of information gathering which entails the asking of questions regarding this pandemic. The basic information/question and answer gathering from that process alone would accomplish a lot and more than likely dispel a lot of conjured-up political rhetoric at the same time.

 

[Bamaro]

And no one has even come close. There's not even the least bit of evidence for it. None. Nada. Zilch. There's really not even a shred of evidence that the true origin of the virus was Wuhan or even China.

Didn't the Chinese destroy viral samples early on that could have shown a DNA fingerprint relating to the circulating virus?

 

[Bamaro]

I agree that, China being China, we'll never find out, nor will the WHO. Tracing back to predict the virus' future is important and that's being done. Searching in China is a dead horse for many reasons...

Regardless of where it originated, we should strive to determine where it originated, even if we are never successful. Knowing where it originated would go a long way to preventing other spreads. It still seems that China is the most likely source.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

This is a good read and could possibly go a long way in helping understand what can be done to help.

Why so many epidemics originate in Asia and Africa

 

[NationalTitles18]

Everyone with a brain wants answers, but if we go into that process seeking someone to blame or with preconceived notions for which we bend the evidence to fit then that won't really be an answer. Those are my concerns: blame-shifting and hampering real efforts to find the origin. In addition, I'll add that stirring up international trouble without need will not help anyone.

 

[Tidewater]

Blaming the country of origin for a global pandemic is just childish.

3 million deaths tends to focus the mind.
It could well be that the Chinese government did nothing wrong. We don't know because the Chinese government is refusing to come clean or cooperate with real honest investigative efforts.
That in itself is an admission of guilt at some level.
The real point is to understand how the pandemic started, what government responses were, how effective they were, to prevent the next pandemic (wherever it starts) from spreading so quickly.
The Chinese government thus far has adopted the Bart Simpson policy of "I didn't do. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything."
China continues to be an appallingly bad global neighbor.

 

[Tidewater]

And no one has even come close. There's not even the least bit of evidence for it. None. Nada. Zilch. There's really not even a shred of evidence that the true origin of the virus was Wuhan or even China.

Perhaps you do not fully understand how totalitarian regimes work.
In the Soviet Union, Nikolai Yezhov was the head of the NKVD, and worked with Joe Stalin. Yezhov fell out of favor, so Stalin had him "disappeared."

There is no evidence Yezhov ever stood next to Comrade Stalin. None. Nada. Zilch. (Except the lower photo, which somehow survived).
Likewise, there is no evidence that Comrade Stalin ever stood next to Antipov, Kirov, or Shvernik. None. Nada. Zilch. (Except the unaltered photos).

If you gave me 100 workers (50 virologists and 50 IT specialists), access to the WIV for a full year, and I told those workers that, if any evidence survived showing that coronaviruses were being studied in the WIV, I would kill all of them and their families, I guarantee you that no evidence would exist either. But that would not mean that no coronavirus research had even taken place there, just that there would be no evidence.
It is possible that the Chinese government reacted entirely appropriately, but we don't know that because the Chinese government is refusing to cooperate with honest investigations.
Three million dead people (and counting) deserve an honest investigation.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Perhaps you do not fully understand how totalitarian regimes work.
In the Soviet Union, Nikolai Yezhov was the head of the NKVD, and worked with Joe Stalin. Yezhov fell out of favor, so Stalin had him "disappeared."
View attachment 15931
There is no evidence Yezhov ever stood next to Comrade Stalin. None. Nada. Zilch. (Except the lower photo, which somehow survived).
Likewise, there is no evidence that Comrade Stalin ever stood next to Antipov, Kirov, or Shvernik. None. Nada. Zilch. (Except the unaltered photos).
View attachment 15932
If you gave me 100 workers (50 virologists and 50 IT specialists), access to the WIV for a full year, and I told those workers that, if any evidence survived showing that coronaviruses were being studied in the WIV, I would kill all of them and their families, I guarantee you that no evidence would exist either. But that would not mean that no coronavirus research had even taken place there, just that there would be no evidence.
It is possible that the Chinese government reacted entirely appropriately, but we don't know that because the Chinese government is refusing to cooperate with honest investigations.
Three million dead people (and counting) deserve an honest investigation.

How many times do I have to say that it needs investigation so far as practically possible so we can learn every bit we can learn before it sinks into your hard head? I need no lesson on how totalitarian governments work - I saw how an authoritarian behaved right here at home and I'm more interested in investigation his sorry behind since we have 560,000+ dead and most are on his hands. There is plenty of evidence for that and a much higher likelihood that we can find more, unlike in a foreign country that serves as a wonderful distraction for those here at home who want it.