Mac Jones Related News (Cam vs. MJ in New England)

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RollTide_HTTR

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That's just it though. It is a cumulative effect. It's the same reason RBs simply do not last that long on average. So I think you're correct, Cam did not start to deteriorate until about year 4 or 5 or so. Really, since his Super Bowl year it has been a decline in health. He should be in the prime of his career.

I'd rather have a Brady than a Mahommes. Even though Brady is on the opposite end of the spectrum, a QB that stays in the pocket has a far better chance of a 15 year career. Mahommes may adjust his game, and to his credit, he does tend to get down before taking hits, so maybe he's a bad comparison.
For sure, I would also rather have the greatest QB of all time or the next great QB ;).

But I do agree. The Panthers put a lot on Cam, especially during the Super Bowl season. He took a ton of hits both in and outside the pocket and did a lot of QB sneak type stuff IIRC. He's taken a ton of punishment.

My bigger point was just that I wouldn't bet on injury being the only way Mac gets on the field. Unless Cam plays like he used to I think his play and losing games will get him benched at some point.
 

TideEngineer08

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For sure, I would also rather have the greatest QB of all time or the next great QB ;).

But I do agree. The Panthers put a lot on Cam, especially during the Super Bowl season. He took a ton of hits both in and outside the pocket and did a lot of QB sneak type stuff IIRC. He's taken a ton of punishment.

My bigger point was just that I wouldn't bet on injury being the only way Mac gets on the field. Unless Cam plays like he used to I think his play and losing games will get him benched at some point.
Yeah I think you're right on that point as well. He was not spectacular at all last year. I can't see how that's going to change that much this season.
 
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DzynKingRTR

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That's just it though. It is a cumulative effect. It's the same reason RBs simply do not last that long on average. So I think you're correct, Cam did not start to deteriorate until about year 4 or 5 or so. Really, since his Super Bowl year it has been a decline in health. He should be in the prime of his career.

I'd rather have a Brady than a Mahommes. Even though Brady is on the opposite end of the spectrum, a QB that stays in the pocket has a far better chance of a 15 year career. Mahommes may adjust his game, and to his credit, he does tend to get down before taking hits, so maybe he's a bad comparison.
Randall Cunningham had a long career.
 

TideEngineer08

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Randall Cunningham had a long career.
The exception that proves the rule. Also, the game has changed so much even since he retired. Defenders are even faster, even stronger, even more brutal. Rules changes have helped, but they don't completely eliminate it.

You know thinking about it, I don't remember Cunningham taking a lot of punishment either. He was a great one.
 
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DzynKingRTR

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The exception that proves the rule. Also, the game has changed so much even since he retired. Defenders are even faster, even stronger, even more brutal. Rules changes have helped, but they don't completely eliminate it.

You know thinking about it, I don't remember Cunningham taking a lot of punishment either. He was a great one.
Yeah, I don't remember him ever taking a hard hit and getting injured. I was a bit surprised to learn that he was not in the Hall of Fame.
 
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Padreruf

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His daughter Vashti is a world class high jumper -- and in the Olympics. Coached by Randall, she does track workouts daily but only jumps once every 3 weeks...not sure how she has done in Tokyo...

 

TideEngineer08

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Yeah, I don't remember him ever taking a hard hit and getting injured. I was a bit surprised to learn that he was not in the Hall of Fame.
I was so completely let down when Minnesota lost to Atlanta in that NFC championship game.

Of course, with Minnesota's Super Bowl history, and facing the Denver machine in Elway's last year, they would have probably lost to Denver as well.
 

BamaMoon

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I read an article yesterday (RollBamaRoll Twitter handle???) but apparently, Mac is just making more plays than Cam in practices right now. The article speculated that because MJ is so smart and learns so fast it might just be a matter of time until he overtakes Cam this season, regardless of his health. TIFWIW, cause it was a Bama tilted article.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I read an article yesterday (RollBamaRoll Twitter handle???) but apparently, Mac is just making more plays than Cam in practices right now. The article speculated that because MJ is so smart and learns so fast it might just be a matter of time until he overtakes Cam this season, regardless of his health. TIFWIW, cause it was a Bama tilted article.
It confirms what we always "heard" about him when he was at Bama, that he processes the game very, very fast. So, it doesn't surprise me that he's beginning to adjust to the speed of the NFL, though he probably still has some "adjusting" to do. I am very confident that once he gets past the normal "rookie transition" from college to pro, that he will begin to light up the scoreboard.
 
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AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Cam always gets hurt because he always breaks down and runs. Despite the current love affair with running QBs in the NFL, it's hard for them to finish a season - or three...
It's not necessarily because he breaks down a lot. A lot of the runs called for him are by design.

I was surprised at the Pats' gameplan with him last year. Figured his designed runs would be reduced but the Pats had him running options and sneaks frequently.

That being said he stayed healthier than I thought he would. Just doesn't have his arm back after that injury a few years back.
 

BamaNation

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It's not necessarily because he breaks down a lot. A lot of the runs called for him are by design.

I was surprised at the Pats' gameplan with him last year. Figured his designed runs would be reduced but the Pats had him running options and sneaks frequently.

That being said he stayed healthier than I thought he would. Just doesn't have his arm back after that injury a few years back.
Based on his appearance way back when on the Gruden & QBs episode, I'm thinking it might be the only play he actually truly understands. (no blue font) Contrast his appearance to just about every other QB who ever appeared on that show and similar discussions with Hurts, Tua, etc.
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Based on his appearance way back when on the Gruden & QBs episode, I'm thinking it might be the only play he actually truly understands. (no blue font) Contrast his appearance to just about every other QB who ever appeared on that show and similar discussions with Hurts, Tua, etc.
I blame Gus for that more than Cam.

I don't think Cam, eccentric though he is, has too much trouble with NFL playbooks. With the exception of time out due to injury he's pretty much always been a starter.

Just hope he gets his arm back with a proper off-season. COVID year did no one any favors.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Everyone gets all giddy about the mobile quarterback, ala Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson, but as several have already said, the chances of a mobile quarterback having as long of a career as a predominantly pocket quarterback aren't as great. Just too many opportunities to get hit and those hits begin to accumulate and take a toll on the body.
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Everyone gets all giddy about the mobile quarterback, ala Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson, but as several have already said, the chances of a mobile quarterback having as long of a career as a predominantly pocket quarterback aren't as great. Just too many opportunities to get hit and those hits begin to accumulate and take a toll on the body.
Can do good things in the short term though. Russell Wilson and Patty Mahomes are proof of that. Cam might have been had the Panthers had a proper line, Kelvin Benjamin not ended up being a bust and Olsen didn't have to be receiver number 1 for the majority of Cam's time in Carolina. Hell he's already the most prolific running QB in history going by stats alone.
 

TideEngineer08

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Can do good things in the short term though. Russell Wilson and Patty Mahomes are proof of that. Cam might have been had the Panthers had a proper line, Kelvin Benjamin not ended up being a bust and Olsen didn't have to be receiver number 1 for the majority of Cam's time in Carolina. Hell he's already the most prolific running QB in history going by stats alone.
But you said it earlier. Carolina did him a double disservice by calling so many designed runs. It's one thing to scramble around, but quite another to purposely invite the punishment.

I get the desire. The physical talent of a Cam Newton is very rare. Frankly... He was quite like a Derrick Henry with an all-pro arm. But once you start to break down, there is no reversing it. On that note, I'm amazed at Henry's durability but even he is going to start seeing the breakdown sooner rather than later.

Wilson and Mahomes have shown the wherewithal to get down on the ground before the defense gets to them, and their teams don't call a whole lot of designed runs.
 
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AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
But you said it earlier. Carolina did him a double disservice by calling so many designed runs. It's one thing to scramble around, but quite another to purposely invite the punishment.

I get the desire. The physical talent of a Cam Newton is very rare. Frankly... He was quite like a Derrick Henry with an all-pro arm. But once you start to break down, there is no reversing it. On that note, I'm amazed at Henry's durability but even he is going to start seeing the breakdown sooner rather than later.

Wilson and Mahomes have shown the wherewithal to get down on the ground before the defense gets to them, and their teams don't call a whole lot of designed runs.
Scrambles are different from designed runs, and a lot of Cam's runs were by design. Yeah, anyone is going to take a lot of punishment with that sort of load.

I place a lot of blame on Carolina and their personnel decisions for how Cam's career has gone. He basically had 1 guy that could be called a playmaker at WR during his tenure there and that was Steve Smith. After that it was a parade of guys that had little business on anyone's depth chart at WR and Olsen. As a result they pretty much had to put the load on Cam's legs and it's never a good thing to see your QB getting smacked on designed runs that will pretty much guarantee he's going to rack up hits. Cam also had a legit beef with the refs on some of the hits he took. Hits that would have been flags on Tom Brady, for instance, never drew flags from the officials because, hey, it's Cam Newton.

Carolina never struck when the iron was hot and went all in on surrounding Cam with personnel that could get the job done like KC and Seattle have with Mahomes and Wilson.

Tennessee, IMO, did a hell of a job with Henry. Brought him along slowly and he still has a ton of tread on the tires as a result.
 
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