Mass shootings . . . . pt 2.

[crimsonaudio]

I'm sure this has been discussed debated etc. But is it possible to limit the capacity of the magazine sold with a gun over the counter? Say like an AR-15 can be sold legally with 6 cartridge magazine. Want a larger magazine you pay a premium, go through a background search, be entered into a database and pay a tax based on the capacity of the magazine. You already have to do similar if you want to buy a silencer.

Fine idea moving forward, but you have to realize there are literally hundreds of millions of 30 round mags out there already. It would not surprise me to find there are more than a billion in the US alone. Most any AR owner will have a bunch of them as they're cheap and make range time more efficient.

Many of these solutions would likely pay dividends many years down the road, but I suspect most folks proposing these changes aren't firearms enthusiasts who realize the mammoth numbers of these items already in circulation.

 

[NationalTitles18]

This article was from 2019. I have to admit that 250M is a lot, CA.

So let's require them to be registered under the NFA after the background check and tax them at several hundred dollars per year or take them to a voluntary buyback for $100 each. Not registering one is a $10k fine and 10 years in prison. (the numbers are obviously negotiable and are used as examples with teeth)

If there is a will there is a way. Do we have the will to really save the children?

Because I'm tired of people crying "Save the children!" when they imagine things in their heads that aren't even true and for which there is NO evidence and then saying "screw the children" the rest of the time by their actions.

Every time a gunman has to reload is another potential opportunity for someone to take him out or to escape. Every time he has to reload it slows him down that much more.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-mass-shootings-rise-experts-say-high-capacity-magazines-should-be-the-focus/2019/08/18/d016fa66-bfa3-11e9-a5c6-1e74f7ec4a93_story.html

 

[Bamaro]

At least nine people were killed and about 50 others wounded during the Memorial Day weekend, the traditional start of the Chicago’s summer events and violence.

During the weekend, police seized 250 illegal firearms, including 11 from beachgoers at North Avenue Beach on Monday.

 

[Tug Tide]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530753379819044864

 

[NationalTitles18]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530753379819044864

The highest gun mortality rates also correlate with the highest gun ownership rates (or perhaps more succinctly said, the number of guns owned).

I once bought the line that more guns means less gun violence because there was supposedly study behind it and perhaps I wanted to believe that, but it's absolutely demonstrably not true.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

When the Jan. 6th insurrection happened, the riot crowd was not carrying, with a few exceptions. The reason they weren’t was because D.C. has tough gun laws, and evidently that discourages people from packing.
Of course there are always those who will ignore any law, but tough gun laws seem to work or at least help.

Imagine if it had been legal for every rioter at the Capital to have been wagging around their favorite gun.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

Putin’s implied threats to go nuclear to keep adversaries from being too aggressive against him remind me of the same tactics we see here domestically. We’ve got well armed gun nuts implying there are so many of them that even the Feds would come up short if they have a confrontation.

We need to start cutting back on the number of firearms in general and if the extremists want it to be from their cold dead hands in doing so I have every confidence the Feds can accommodate them.

How about we shift the emphasis from the war on drugs and declare war on shooting violence and guns.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

So, if the police are not obliged to protect citizens then maybe they should not receive funding from those citizens' taxes. If you want to act like a private entity with no responsibilities to the public, then raise your own damn money.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530753379819044864

That can't be true, Wyoming isn't a real place.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think the more immediate "issue" is the guns like the ARs that are ALREADY in circulation throughout this country. Sure, we can pass reform to handle future purchases, but what is a logical and realistic solution to the ones already in society?

*Make it illegal for sporting goods stores to sell the ammo?

*How do we control the secondary market if the above were to pass?

 

[Bazza]

 

[crimsonaudio]

I think the more immediate "issue" is the guns like the ARs that are ALREADY in circulation throughout this country. Sure, we can pass reform to handle future purchases, but what is a logical and realistic solution to the ones already in society?

*Make it illegal for sporting goods stores to sell the ammo?

*How do we control the secondary market if the above were to pass?

As I explained above, the AR typically uses .223 or 5.56 ammo, but most ARs made can accept various caliber upper receivers. There's no single ammo you can restrict that will make the firearms useless, and none of the calibers used in ARs are unusual - meaning restricting ammo sales of .223 means that everyone with a .223 rifle is out of luck.

Also, we need to figure out what the goal is. Even with these shootings the number of people killed annually with rifles is vanishingly low (the FBI numbers hover around 400 per year, nation wide), while literally tens of thousands of people are killed by handguns annually. Is the goal to to curb firearm violence or are we just reacting to these mass shootings, which are statistical outliers in the context of total US gun violence?

Until we decide what we're trying to accomplish and understand the ramifications of each move we're basically throwing ideas against the wall to see what sticks.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

As I explained above, the AR typically uses .223 or 5.56 ammo, but most ARs made can accept various caliber upper receivers. There's no single ammo you can restrict that will make the firearms useless, and none of the calibers used in ARs are unusual - meaning restricting ammo sales of .223 means that everyone with a .223 rifle is out of luck.

Also, we need to figure out what the goal is. Even with these shootings the number of people killed annually with rifles is vanishingly low (the FBI numbers hover around 400 per year, nation wide), while literally tens of thousands of people are killed by handguns annually. Is the goal to to curb firearm violence or are we just reacting to these mass shootings, which are statistical outliers in the context of total US gun violence?

Until we decide what we're trying to accomplish and understand the ramifications of each move we're basically throwing ideas against the wall to see what sticks.

Yeah, I agree CA. One of the articles posted earlier in the thread regarding school security and mass shootings basically stated *summarizing* "The number of school shootings are so low in the scope of firearm violence that we really don't know". That goes along with your point.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

In a perfect world we would make it illegal to own military type weapons, along with an explanation that a mistake had been made to allow them to be available to the general public in the first place. Buy them back at a generous price, then prosecute the heck out of somebody that gets caught with one. Make the potential penalty so strong it will serve as a deterrent. treat those who refuse to turn theirs in as potential terrorists.

I imagine it was not popular when the government started making it illegal to sell cocaine but the Feds got it done anyway.

 

[2003TIDE]

illegal to own military type weapons

Define that?

Is this a military type weapon?

How about this one?



This one?

 

[Chukker Veteran]

I’m sure someone well versed in firearms would know the difference in weapons needed for self defense and hunting and target shooting and those that simply spew bullets. Let those with a better familiarity with them define them.

 

[2003TIDE]

For the record I'm not trying to be an ass on the previous post.

All 3 are the same gun. All are .223 and can have a magazine with a capacity over 5 rounds. One may look scarier than others, but none of them are the same used by the military.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

I’m referring to guns that shoot many more rounds in a short time than is needed for anything other than spraying bullets. Don’t accommodate the resistant ones by doing nothing. Get the most obvious and dangerous weapons out of private hands.

 

[2003TIDE]

Here are my thoughts for the record.

We need universal background checks for all gun purchases.

Handguns are really the problem. Mass shootings make the headlines, but numbers killed by handguns dwarf the number killed by long guns. I would not mind irresponsible handgun owners facing strict punishment (loss of carry permit, loss of guns) for being irresponsible. The number of guns stolen out of cars is mind boggling. If you leave your gun in cars for criminals to steal, you don't need to be a gun owner.

Now on to longs guns. Magazine limits are fine. 5 rounds sure. I could really care less how inconvenient it is on the range. Truth be told, I really don't see the point in semi-auto long guns at all. Hunting? Bolt or lever action work fine. Home defense? Get a shotgun. It would not hurt my feelings at all if semi-auto long guns are banned.

None of those are a perfect answer. Arguing against any one of those because it "doesn't fix" the problem is a straw man argument. This is a complicated problem that will have a complicated/multi-part solution.

 

[92tide]

Yeah, I agree CA. One of the articles posted earlier in the thread regarding school security and mass shootings basically stated *summarizing* "The number of school shootings are so low in the scope of firearm violence that we really don't know". That goes along with your point.

but the impacts of those school shootings (the families, the survivors, community members etc) are pretty large