Mass Shootings ... pt. 3

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crimsonaudio

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IMO, the person who sold him the gun should face manslaughter charges.
Meh, that's a bridge too far, imo. Would you suggest the same if someone bought a car with the express intent (unbeknownst to the seller) that they were going to mow down folks in a parade?

I think the best solution here is red-flag laws and criminalizing private sales.

I don't think those will solve the problem, but they will make it more difficult and likely save some lives.
 

Bamaro

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Meh, that's a bridge too far, imo. Would you suggest the same if someone bought a car with the express intent (unbeknownst to the seller) that they were going to mow down folks in a parade?

I think the best solution here is red-flag laws and criminalizing private sales.

I don't think those will solve the problem, but they will make it more difficult and likely save some lives.
I cant really equate selling a car to a kid with selling an assault weapon to kid
 
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crimsonaudio

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I cant really equate selling a car to a kid with selling an assault weapon to kid
I get that they are different devices with different purposes, but if the sale was legal and the seller had no idea the kid (adult, actually) couldn't legally buy a firearm otherwise, I don't see how you can charge the seller. No more than you can charge the person selling the car.

Vilifying people who don't break the law is not the answer.
 

JDCrimson

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That may be your position but this is exactly what the dramshop act does. If you are a bar owner and you over serve a patron or serve a minor you can be held indirectly liable for the patrons actions under the theory of contributory negligence.

Meh, that's a bridge too far, imo. Would you suggest the same if someone bought a car with the express intent (unbeknownst to the seller) that they were going to mow down folks in a parade?

I think the best solution here is red-flag laws and criminalizing private sales.

I don't think those will solve the problem, but they will make it more difficult and likely save some lives.
 

crimsonaudio

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That may be your position but this is exactly what the dramshop act does. If you are a bar owner and you over serve a patron or serve a minor you can be held indirectly liable for the patrons actions under the theory of contributory negligence.
That's akin to knowingly selling a firearm to a felon.

What you're suggesting is akin to holding the bar owner liable for someone having a drink with lunch then getting into a lethal accident.

The act you reference would be more of an analog to criminalizing private sales.
 

JDCrimson

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No i am talking about civil liability not criminal liability. If you want to change outcomes of these situations you will need to heighten the responsibility of others in the stream of commerce.

That's akin to knowingly selling a firearm to a felon.

What you're suggesting is akin to holding the bar owner liable for someone having a drink with lunch then getting into a lethal accident.

The act you reference would be more of an analog to criminalizing private sales.
 

crimsonaudio

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No i am talking about civil liability not criminal liability. If you want to change outcomes of these situations you will need to heighten the responsibility of others in the stream of commerce.
So your answer is not to alter the laws to reduce these transactions, but rather to criminalize what is otherwise common and legal?

When the server gives the obviously drunk person another drink, they're knowingly adding to the situation. That's the point of the law. It also why the bartender isn't held liable when the patron buys one or two drinks, is not seemingly intoxicated (nor would one assume otherwise in a similar situation) then does something that injures another.

Intent plays a role. In an otherwise perfectly legal sale with no red flags, punishing the seller because some random idiot does something stupid is the paradigm of bad law.

Don't like it? Change the law.
 

Tug Tide

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Life without parole just doesn’t seem enough
 

Bamabuzzard

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Life without parole just doesn’t seem enough
What will happen to him in prison will be much worse than if they were to execute him.
 

mdb-tpet

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Either that or perpetual solitary to "protect" him...
If you follow what happens to someone left in solitary for long periods of time, it's a nasty and destructive punishment.

I don't think we as a nation should be punishing murder with more state sponsored killing, plus it's more expensive than a capital conviction these days. Life in prison without parole to me would be the worst punishment of all anyway. Knowing you'll never see the outside of a prison again, is a terrible price to pay. And after all, it's a form of capital punishment with a long, long wait.
 

Jon

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former football player at UVa shoots up the team. 3 dead and he is still at large

confirmed LB D'Sean Perry among the victims


update, 3 confirmed dead. Perry referenced above plus two Wide Receivers on the team Lavel Davis Jr and Devin Chandler. Suspect has been apprehended and lock down has been lifted. Shooter was a walk-on that left last year, won't speculate as to motives
 
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TIDE-HSV

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If you follow what happens to someone left in solitary for long periods of time, it's a nasty and destructive punishment.

I don't think we as a nation should be punishing murder with more state sponsored killing, plus it's more expensive than a capital conviction these days. Life in prison without parole to me would be the worst punishment of all anyway. Knowing you'll never see the outside of a prison again, is a terrible price to pay. And after all, it's a form of capital punishment with a long, long wait.
Oh, I know...
 

CrimsonNagus

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former football player at UVa shoots up the team. 3 dead and he is still at large

confirmed LB D'Sean Perry among the victims


update, 3 confirmed dead. Perry referenced above plus two Wide Receivers on the team Lavel Davis Jr and Devin Chandler. Suspect has been apprehended and lock down has been lifted. Shooter was a walk-on that left last year, won't speculate as to motives
Guns... One day this country will decide to cherish life more than they cherish guns.
 
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