News Article: Mueller Charges 13 Russian Nationals, 3 Russian Entities with Election Interference

Jon

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Honestly, not sure about your point.

I feel like the wool has been unwound so we can not find the thread any longer, which makes it hard to figure.

I don't think there are any rational people who think that some Russians did not try, and may have succeeded in a small degree, at influencing the election. That fact, as far as it goes, is universally acknowledged.

But what then? We all already knew Russia, China, and frankly, England France and Germany all do conspire to affect ours and each other's elections. And what? Well... We found the Russian group used illicit methods, so they get the indictment. Good. But then?

Unless we are prepared for a new red scare, this is, on the whole, a giant nothing burger. Do you want a new red scare?
Universally acknowledged? Trump was calling this a hoax within the last week or so and at least one person who liked this comment was readily agreeing that it was a hoax.

and your suggestion here is that we should just take it? No sanctions, no retaliation just bend over and let the Russians do what they want? Wouldn't want a red scare I suppose at least not now that we "universally acknowledge" it is a real issue guess we better concentrate on the real enemies, brown people and antifa?
 

LA4Bama

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Universally acknowledged? Trump was calling this a hoax within the last week or so and at least one person who liked this comment was readily agreeing that it was a hoax.

and your suggestion here is that we should just take it? No sanctions, no retaliation just bend over and let the Russians do what they want? Wouldn't want a red scare I suppose at least not now that we "universally acknowledge" it is a real issue guess we better concentrate on the real enemies, brown people and antifa?

Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?
 

Jon

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Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?
you think this is a nothing burger

you seem to be suggesting that we just accept it?

Just follow along with the dear leader and therefore just accept his enemy list (antifa, brown people, etc) and let the russians skate?

how about you tell me what you think should be done about the Russians successfully attacking our country
 

LA4Bama

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you think this is a nothing burger

you seem to be suggesting that we just accept it?

Just follow along with the dear leader and therefore just accept his enemy list (antifa, brown people, etc) and let the russians skate?

how about you tell me what you think should be done about the Russians successfully attacking our country
I am not suggesting anything like this. Your post is absurd.
 

LA4Bama

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...tell me what you think should be done about the Russians successfully attacking our country...
The Russians have been attacking our country more or less constantly for about 70 years. But as far as their attempts to create disorder in our society by posting fake news and fake ads, etc., I recommend you don't believe everything you read on the internet. Then you will be immune to that influence.
 
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Jon

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The Russians have been attacking our country more or less constantly for about 70 years. But as far as their attempts to create disorder in our society by posting fake news and fake ads, etc., I recommend you don't believe everything you read on the internet. Then you will be immune to that influence.
LOL

everything I thought was happening in this election, and I've been incredibly consistent here, is proving out true. This nothing burger (your words) of indictments shows that to be the case. The Russians with help from Americans (it remains to be seen if it was willingly or not) ran a very successful influence campaign to elect Donald Trump at the expense of Hillary.

That is what I believe

what do you believe?
 

92tide

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LOL

everything I thought was happening in this election, and I've been incredibly consistent here, is proving out true. This nothing burger (your words) of indictments shows that to be the case. The Russians with help from Americans (it remains to be seen if it was willingly or not) ran a very successful influence campaign to elect Donald Trump at the expense of Hillary.

That is what I believe

what do you believe?
my guess? some variation on this theme

 

LA4Bama

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LOL

everything I thought was happening in this election, and I've been incredibly consistent here, is proving out true. This nothing burger (your words) of indictments shows that to be the case. The Russians with help from Americans (it remains to be seen if it was willingly or not) ran a very successful influence campaign to elect Donald Trump at the expense of Hillary.

That is what I believe

what do you believe?
I believe the FBI knew about these people in 2015 when that journalist published an article in the NYTM and decided to do nothing about it. I believe the Obama administration knew about these guys and decided to use them for ulterior motives. I think the indictment by Mueller is not only not a big deal, but it is cover for how little his investigation has actually uncovered.
 

NationalTitles17

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I really don't see how any red blooded American can't be somewhat upset with what the Russians did or be concerned that American actors assisted them in interfering with our election process or that there have proven to be numerous connections between the Russians and one or more campaigns. For me it's not about the politics of one party or even a political ideology. It's about our right to self govern that was interfered with by outsiders with insider assistance. That is not a "nothing burger" or a "hoax". That is an insult and an injury. But it is the apathy of many that is more indicative of impending doom.
 

NationalTitles17

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I believe the FBI knew about these people in 2015 when that journalist published an article in the NYTM and decided to do nothing about it. I believe the Obama administration knew about these guys and decided to use them for ulterior motives. I think the indictment by Mueller is not only not a big deal, but it is cover for how little his investigation has actually uncovered.
Obama very likely screwed the pooch on this, but you don't seem to be able/willing to see beyond that. What would it take for you to be concerned about Russian involvement and more so the assistance they received from Americans - some possibly working with one or more campaigns for president? Not trying to be confrontational, but I'd really like to know the answer.
 

LA4Bama

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I really don't see how any red blooded American can't be somewhat upset with what the Russians did or be concerned that American actors assisted them in interfering with our election process or that there have proven to be numerous connections between the Russians and one or more campaigns. For me it's not about the politics of one party or even a political ideology. It's about our right to self govern that was interfered with by outsiders with insider assistance. That is not a "nothing burger" or a "hoax". That is an insult and an injury. But it is the apathy of many that is more indicative of impending doom.
"Red blooded American"? I can't believe how silly this board has become. But like I said... Red Scare on the way.

There should not be any people who ever thought the Russians were not trying to affect our elections. We all knew this, for like, our whole lifetimes!! You guys are acting like this is some sort of revelation. Every power in the world acts to influence our elections. And we, who are the most powerful, act to influence theirs. If you don't want to be influenced by a foreign power, I strongly suggest the use of reason. It is a great antiseptic to foreign influence.
 

NationalTitles17

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"Red blooded American"? I can't believe how silly this board has become. But like I said... Red Scare on the way.

There should not be any people who ever thought the Russians were not trying to affect our elections. We all knew this, for like, our whole lifetimes!! You guys are acting like this is some sort of revelation. Every power in the world acts to influence our elections. And we, who are the most powerful, act to influence theirs. If you don't want to be influenced by a foreign power, I strongly suggest the use of reason. It is a great antiseptic to foreign influence.
"Red blooded American" was an intentional rhetorical device meant to convey a vigorous and proud spirit, but please by all means accuse me of creating a red scare. Maybe "red" is code for commie and it's really a call to my comrades.

I don't disagree with you in regards to fake news accounts, facebook/twitter posts, and the like. People have to be smart.

It's also well known that Russians have tried to have influence for decades. This is certainly not anything new in that respect.

But did we not try to mitigate their attempts then? Should we not try now? What is your point then?
 

LA4Bama

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Obama very likely screwed the pooch on this, but you don't seem to be able/willing to see beyond that. What would it take for you to be concerned about Russian involvement and more so the assistance they received from Americans - some possibly working with one or more campaigns for president? Not trying to be confrontational, but I'd really like to know the answer.
Okay, since you are trying to be non-confrontational, I will reply in kind. First, however, I have to clear the air. When you write "you don't seem to be able/willing to see beyond that", I have to say, that is simply unjustified. I have not said anything that limits me to some partisan viewpoint and I don't think at all that it should be imputed to me. My position is not at all based on what Obama did or did not do.

Now, as for being concerned. I have already said that I am glad the indictment came down and I have no doubt it was warranted. But, the idea that we are in some sort of crisis is just silly. The Russians have been using every form of media since before I was born to influence our elections. There is nothing new here except the form of media. When it comes to the idea that Americans were conspiring with Russians, I have not seen any evidence yet. If there is evidence forthcoming I will adjust my opinion accordingly, but right now there is none and so it is a massive nothing burger from the point of view that has dominated the media for a year, which is the notion that we have a collusion.

Beyond that, the issue is about methods and about reason, and it is a fundamental and philosophical issue. If people are so stupid that they are influenced by hashtags and fake news posts, why do we let them rule us with their votes? If they are, on the whole, not so stupid and not so influenced, then why are we concerned with hashtags and fake facebook post?
 
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NationalTitles17

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Okay, since you are trying to be non-confrontational, I will reply in kind. First, however, I have to clear the air. When you write "you don't seem to be able/willing to see beyond that", I have to say, that is simply unjustified. I have not said anything that limits me to some partisan viewpoint and I don't think at all that it should be imputed to me. My position is not at all based on what Obama did or did not do.

Now, as for being concerned. I have already said that I am glad the indictment came down and I have no doubt it was warranted. But, the idea that we are in some sort of crisis is just silly. The Russians have been using every form of media since before I was born to influence our elections. There is nothing new here except the form of media. When it comes to the idea that Americans were conspiring with Russians, I have not seen any evidence yet. If there is evidence forthcoming I will adjust my opinion accordingly, but right now there is none and so it is a massive nothing burger from the point of view that has dominated the media for a year, which is the notion that we have a collusion.

Beyond that, the issue is about methods and about reason, and it is a fundamental and philosophical issue. If people are so stupid that they are influenced by hashtags and fake news posts, why do we let them rule us with their votes? If they are, on the whole, not so stupid and not so influenced, then why are we concerned with hashtags and fake facebook post?
Thank you for answering the question.

I must say however that you should remove the log from your own eye before removing the splinter from mine. Or do you think the Red Scare comment was justified in being directed toward me? Did you gather from my few comments here that I was running around screaming inconsolably about a Russian invasion? If you think you were justified don't bother to reply to this portion.

I'll wait for the facts before I form an opinion on whether collusion occurred. IMHO, that would be prudent for anyone to do.
 

LA4Bama

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Thank you for answering the question.

I must say however that you should remove the log from your own eye before removing the splinter from mine. Or do you think the Red Scare comment was justified in being directed toward me? Did you gather from my few comments here that I was running around screaming inconsolably about a Russian invasion? If you think you were justified don't bother to reply to this portion.

I'll wait for the facts before I form an opinion on whether collusion occurred. IMHO, that would be prudent for anyone to do.
I made the red scare comment earlier in the thread. You are taking something personally that was not directed at you as an individual poster. The issue is real however... we are facing a new, heightened situation in which eveything is seen as a crisis. It is a path to totalitarianism. Everyone should make a personal decision to avoid it.
 

NationalTitles17

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I made the red scare comment earlier in the thread. You are taking something personally that was not directed at you as an individual poster. The issue is real however... we are facing a new, heightened situation in which eveything is seen as a crisis. It is a path to totalitarianism. Everyone should make a personal decision to avoid it.

Originally Posted by NationalTitles17
I really don't see how any red blooded American can't be somewhat upset with what the Russians did or be concerned that American actors assisted them in interfering with our election process or that there have proven to be numerous connections between the Russians and one or more campaigns. For me it's not about the politics of one party or even a political ideology. It's about our right to self govern that was interfered with by outsiders with insider assistance. That is not a "nothing burger" or a "hoax". That is an insult and an injury. But it is the apathy of many that is more indicative of impending doom.



"Red blooded American"? I can't believe how silly this board has become. But like I said... Red Scare on the way.

There should not be any people who ever thought the Russians were not trying to affect our elections. We all knew this, for like, our whole lifetimes!! You guys are acting like this is some sort of revelation. Every power in the world acts to influence our elections. And we, who are the most powerful, act to influence theirs. If you don't want to be influenced by a foreign power, I strongly suggest the use of reason. It is a great antiseptic to foreign influence.
ummm.....yeah, not directed toward me...

Again, don't disagree with you on the over-hyping of this and every other thing that happens.
 

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