News Article: Mueller Charges 13 Russian Nationals, 3 Russian Entities with Election Interference

chanson78

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I’m not sure that in today’s day and age of social media tribalism, that you can just expect people to be able to suss out what is fact or fiction. The very nature of propaganda is to delegitimize one side of an issue while heavily favoring the other. This has been happening for awhile, but lately has had a very prominent advocate who even now won’t unequivocally say that election meddling did occur.

Beyond that, the issue is about methods and about reason, and it is a fundamental and philosophical issue. If people are so stupid that they are influenced by hashtags and fake news posts, why do we let them rule us with their votes? If they are, on the whole, not so stupid and not so influenced, then why are we concerned with hashtags and fake facebook post?
I imagine this last bit is tongue in cheek, and likely hyperbolic of your position. However, would it be fair to say, that a joke considering an intelligence litmus test for voting rights is something that challenges the American principle of self government?

While technically the 14th amendment does give some leeway on how guaranteed a persons right to vote really is, I think it would be fair to say that introducing some measure of an intelligence test would definitely fall outside the bounds.

You may think that a joke doesn’t have power, and I’m making too much of your offhand comment, but one only has to look at the White House to see just how much power a joke can truly hold.
 

TIDE-HSV

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This has turned altogether too personal and heated and needs to be backed off. This is not a post to be replied to - period...
 

seebell

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I think the Democrats should replace Pelosi as minority leader. She evokes negative images and memories to the nationwide electorate. A fresh start.
 

rgw

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I think the Democrats should replace Pelosi as minority leader. She evokes negative images and memories to the nationwide electorate. A fresh start.
Don't give the Democratic National Party too much credit. They decided they'd rather lose the general election in 2016 over becoming a more populist progressive party. These guys will stick by their insider, beltway wonk, market tested centrism and their old guard of Clintonites to the bitter end. If the party changes it will be due to progressives taking over the party from the bottom up over the next 6 or so years.
 
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Jon

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I can ruin the movie for you.... lots of indictments, lots of fall guys, and no impeachment. Oh and lots of taxpayer dollars gone to waste.
let's not forget guilty pleas, three so far and it appears Gates is about to take his deal. There will be other convictions too. Even if it doesn't end in impeachment a lot of bad people (Manafort, Gates, Flynn, etc, etc) will do time oh and sorry I meant best people not bad people
 

UAH

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Don't give the Democratic National Party too much credit. They decided they'd rather lose the general election in 2016 over becoming a more populist progressive party. These guys will stick by their insider, beltway wonk, market tested centrism and their old guard of Clintonites to the bitter end. If the party changes it will be due to progressives taking over the party from the bottom up over the next 6 or so years.
I agree with the prior post that while I think Nancy Pelosi is an intelligent woman she represents a negative for conservatives who could be swung to the Dems. I don see Shumer
in a much better light. He is another intelligent guy that appears to be owned by special interest.

It is difficult to get past the legacy of the Clinton's particularly with HRC"s pitifully failed election bid.

So where does their new leadership come from?
 

Tidewater

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Mueller is just getting started. Cant wait to see where all of this is heading.
I hope that everybody who broke the law, from whatever party or whatever portion of the political spectrum, goes to jail.
Not get convicted and then pardoned. Jail.

But this is Washington. Hardly anybody goes to jail.
 

92tide

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Don't give the Democratic National Party too much credit. They decided they'd rather lose the general election in 2016 over becoming a more populist progressive party. These guys will stick by their insider, beltway wonk, market tested centrism and their old guard of Clintonites to the bitter end. If the party changes it will be due to progressives taking over the party from the bottom up over the next 6 or so years.
bernie wouldn't have even won the popular vote over trump. he would have probably had a showing on par with mondale.
 

selmaborntidefan

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bernie wouldn't have even won the popular vote over trump. he would have probably had a showing on par with mondale.
1) I'm a little shocked you said this...

2) I'm gonna have to think about this, I'm not sure I agree



This country is WAY different than the one that saw McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis nuked off the map.

Bernie still wins California and New England.

I mean, I think he probably loses but not in Mondale type fashion.

(Then again - I'm one who thought Trump had ZERO chance in the first place so.....)

I talked to my Oregon buddy today. Even though he's a typical Reagan Democrat, he still clings to the fact that HE saw Trump winning in the fall of 2015 while I told him he was nuts. As he said, "It's the only time in politics where I was right and you were wrong."

I predicted McCain and "not Hillary" on March 23, 2007. Sure, I said Edwards but the point being it would NOT be her.
I predicted Kerry would win the nomination in 2004.
I predicted McCain would pick Palin - in fact, most of my co-workers had only heard of her because of me.
I predicted Romney would both win and then lose. (Btw - I met BiB at the MSU game where he was selling his ghost books. We discussed
it as y'all know he was working with Mitt. He told me then - that was about 10 days before the election - that they felt good about winning.
I couldn't for the life of me understand why they thought that).


It's usually relatively easy. 2016 was an anomaly in a lot of ways.
 

selmaborntidefan

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let's not forget guilty pleas, three so far and it appears Gates is about to take his deal. There will be other convictions too. Even if it doesn't end in impeachment a lot of bad people (Manafort, Gates, Flynn, etc, etc) will do time oh and sorry I meant best people not bad people
That's true - and I have no dog in this fight.

However.....the whole Clinton debacle that wound up with the impeachment via Lewinsky actually BEGAN as the Whitewater scandal. Guilty plea after guilty plea, and a lot of folks went to prison including David Hale, Jim McDougal (who died in solitary), Eugene Fitzhugh, Charles Matthews, and Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker was forced to resign (and only avoided prison because he was in need of a liver transplant).

And the Clintons - even according to Ken Starr - weren't guilty of anything criminal.

I'm not saying how this ends because I don't know until we get there. I would just say before everyone starts getting excited about "ooh, he pleaded guilty" to remember that it's a long way from being over.

Iran-Contra saw numerous folks found guilty, too.....but Reagan was never impeached even though the Democrats held both houses of Congress, and neither was Bush.

My suspicion is that Mueller may play the Agnew deal with Trump and plea bargain something down to a fine and a resignation - and that's at the MOST.
 

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