News Article: Mueller Charges 13 Russian Nationals, 3 Russian Entities with Election Interference

Relayer

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There is no crime of "collusion," per se, despite all the PR. "Obstruction of justice," of course, is. I think that most constitutional scholars would agree that obstruction meets the definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors." Then, it's up to Congress. IF it's ever proven, I agree that his real exposure is if even worse ties to the Kremlin turn up...
Exactly. Clinton was impeached on two charges; perjury and obstruction of justice. If Trump gets impeached it would likely be on the same offense(s).
 

Jon

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Exactly. Clinton was impeached on two charges; perjury and obstruction of justice. If Trump gets impeached it would likely be on the same offense(s).
he looks to me as if he has clearly broken election laws, the Logan Act and when all is said and done I wouldn't be shocked to see financial crimes as well. Question is how far is Mueller willing to go.
 

TIDE-HSV

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he looks to me as if he has clearly broken election laws, the Logan Act and when all is said and done I wouldn't be shocked to see financial crimes as well. Question is how far is Mueller willing to go.
Well, the whole area is a very muddy constitutional area. The grounds for impeachment are narrowly stated and undefined. There's no correlation between them and federal criminal statutes. An argument can be made - and has been made - that the president is immune by office from crimes short of those specified in the Constitution. IOW, impeachment is the only remedy, and, if successful, would expose him to other criminal statutes...
 

CharminTide

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lol, oh lordy. This is either an incredibly dumb ploy to try and avoid producing her emails, or an enormous, apparently unreported national security breach. Let us not forget that Trump doesn't use email, and all email correspondence with him was reportedly routed through Hope Hicks.

Hope Hicks told House Intelligence Committee she was hacked

Hope Hicks told the House Intelligence Committee last week that one of her email accounts was hacked, according to people who were present for the former White House communications director's testimony in the panel's Russia probe.

Under relatively routine questioning from Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., about her correspondence, Hicks indicated that she could no longer access two accounts: One she used as a member of President Donald Trump's campaign team and a personal account.

Hicks, who portrayed herself as not savvy in matters of technology, told lawmakers that one of the accounts was hacked, according to two sources who were in the room. It is unclear if Hicks was referring to a campaign or personal account.
 

MattinBama

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CharminTide

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Because of course he did.

Trump Spoke to Witnesses About Matters They Discussed With Special Counsel

The special counsel in the Russia investigation has learned of two conversations in recent months in which President Trump asked key witnesses about matters they discussed with investigators, according to three people familiar with the encounters.

In one episode, the president told an aide that the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, should issue a statement denying a New York Times article in January. The article said Mr. McGahn told investigators that the president once asked him to fire the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. McGahn never released a statement and later had to remind the president that he had indeed asked Mr. McGahn to see that Mr. Mueller was dismissed, the people said.

In the other episode, Mr. Trump asked his former chief of staff, Reince Priebus, how his interview had gone with the special counsel’s investigators and whether they had been “nice,” according to two people familiar with the discussion.
 

Bazza

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Not really at all. See sticky above about name-calling. I'm not going to be cubby-holed and labeled with names I don't want because I think he's a moronic national disaster. (He's not a member here yet, is he?) :)
I thought for a minute you were implying calling someone "liberal" was a bad thing - like it was name calling.

It's been my experience that those who feel they are a liberal - are the furthest thing from it - although they would never realize it.

I understand what you are saying though.......using descriptive terms like "liberal" and "conservative" have a way of inciting too much friction - when all we really want is non-confrontational intellectual dialogue.

:)
 

CharminTide

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Ho boy. The pieces are beginning to fall into place.

Mueller gathers evidence that 2017 Seychelles meeting was effort to establish back channel to Kremlin

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has gathered evidence that a secret meeting in the Seychelles just before the inauguration of Donald Trump was an effort to establish a back channel between the incoming administration and the Kremlin.

In January 2017, Erik Prince, the founder of the private security company Blackwater, met with a Russian official close to Russian President Vladi.mir Putin and later described the meeting to congressional investigators as a chance encounter that was not a planned discussion of U.S.-Russia relations.

A witness cooperating with Mueller has told investigators the meeting was set up in advance so that a representative of the Trump transition could meet with an emissary from Moscow to discuss future relations between the countries, according to the people familiar with the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.

George Nader, a Lebanese American businessman who helped organize and attended the Seychelles meeting, has testified on the matter before a grand jury gathering evidence about discussions between the Trump transition team and emissaries of the Kremlin... Nader’s account is considered key evidence — but not the only evidence — about what transpired in the Seychelles, according to people familiar with the matter.
 

Jon

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CharminTide

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The article said Mr. McGahn told investigators that the president once asked him to fire the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III. Mr. McGahn never released a statement and later had to remind the president that he had indeed asked Mr. McGahn to see that Mr. Mueller was dismissed, the people said.
I just heard this pointed out, but those words can be easily be interpreted to mean that McGahn had to resist against Trump's false version of events. While merely talking to a witness doesn't constitution witness tampering, trying to recruit a witness to lie on your behalf almost certainly would be.
 

Tidewater

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There is no crime of "collusion," per se, despite all the PR. "Obstruction of justice," of course, is. I think that most constitutional scholars would agree that obstruction meets the definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors." Then, it's up to Congress. IF it's ever proven, I agree that his real exposure is if even worse ties to the Kremlin turn up...
I think there are different measuring sticks for crimes and holding federal office.
Jonathan Turley of GWU Law opined that a president can be impeached and removed for simply refusing to do the job, which is certainly not a violation of a criminal statute. "High crimes and misdemeanors," according to Turley, means whatever the House says it means.
On the other hand, I believe the president can serve his term from a prison cell, if he is convicted of a crime and the House refuses to impeach and the Senate refuses to remove him.
Geraldo Rivera said that Clinton could not be charged with any crime as long as he was in office, an argument the Founders would have found absurd.
Of course, they never imagined that the characters we put in the office these days would ever win an election.
 

CharminTide

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Mueller Subpoenas Trump Organization, Demanding Documents About Russia

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, has subpoenaed the Trump Organization to turn over documents, including some related to Russia, according to two people briefed on the matter. The order is the first known time that the special counsel demanded documents directly related to President Trump’s businesses, bringing the investigation closer to the president.

The breadth of the subpoena was not clear, nor was it clear why Mr. Mueller issued it instead of simply asking for the documents from the company, an umbrella organization that oversees Mr. Trump’s business ventures. In the subpoena, delivered in recent weeks, Mr. Mueller ordered the Trump Organization to hand over all documents related to Russia and other topics he is investigating, the people said.

The subpoena is the latest indication that the investigation, which Mr. Trump’s lawyers once regularly assured him would be completed by now, will drag on for at least several more months. Word of the subpoena comes as Mr. Mueller appears to be broadening his investigation to examine the role foreign money may have played in funding Mr. Trump’s political activities. In recent weeks, Mr. Mueller’s investigators have questioned witnesses, including an adviser to the United Arab Emirates, about the flow of Emirati money into the United States.
 

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