News Article: Mueller Delivers Report on Russia Investigation to Attorney General

NationalTitles17

Super Moderator
May 25, 2003
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I'm doing fine now. The national guard was huge assistance in regaining my footing and helped put me in a position to be where I am today.


I just can't help but think back to the litany of metrics I've seen regarding worker productivity v. wages over the last 40 or so years. I'm really skeptical of anything that says THE ECONOMY IS GREAT because the lived experience by the numbers seems to indicate that half or more of this country is experiencing a multi-decade boa constrictor effect on their livelihood.
I understand. Been that way for quite some time.

I went through a somewhat similar situation as you 16 years ago. I ended up going to school as well, which improved my situation beyond my expectations at the time. It took a long time for me but it was worth it. Hang in there.
 

crimsonaudio

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For everyone saying this report isn’t what they were expecting. All we have thus far is a summary by the AG that Trump appointed and that had attacked the investigation prior to his appointment.
And the leaks to the news about what it contained, but agreed - we've not seen the actual report yet. Time will tell if we ever do, but I suspect if there was anything truly in it, it would have leaked by now.
 

NationalTitles17

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May 25, 2003
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For everyone saying this report isn’t what they were expecting. All we have thus far is a summary by the AG that Trump appointed and that had attacked the investigation prior to his appointment.

An AG that apparently doesn’t think the President obstructed justice despite the President admitting to obstructing justice on national tv (evidently the decision on obstruction was left to Barr). An AG that was likely appointed specifically to help out perception of this investigation and that had previously been a part of helping brush an investigation into Republicans under the rug.

I would hope that Barr would act above board but I’m not sure that I trust his summary in this particular situation.

I for one want to know what is in the actual report before rushing to judgement.
True, all of it and I generally agree. There's still a lot we don't know and I want as much of the report released as legally can be and eventually all of it as soon as possible.
 

Bazza

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CBO says we will be having trillion dollar yearly deficits by then. How stupid can voters be?
For me personally (and I bet for many others)...yes I'm concerned about the deficit.

But if you are asking what is more important for the average American....having a roof over their head, food on the table, and the light bill paid...........or the deficit?

I'd say it's a slam dunk.
But the bottom line is for Democrats....they will have to make the argument - and sell it - to those voters whose votes are up for grabs. It's about selling it to the folks......here too on our forum. Go ahead and make your point - I'm listening.
 

81usaf92

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This is why I have the suspicion that Trump is going to ride the Mueller findings into a reelection. He understands how to play the reality tv show bad guy very well...


 

Leeroy

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Dec 27, 2005
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Look, I know some of you guys have little control over your anger, but if you cannot stop with the personal attacks and name calling, you're going to get a mandatory vacation.

We give a little more latitude here on NS than most areas of TF.com, but the name calling and personal attacks are going to stop.
Personally, I probably shouldn’t have opened this thread, I knew better. Reading some of the postings I pretty much knew expressing any satisfaction with the reports outcome would cause issues, and it did. To those I made light of in my posts, I apologize. I’ll stay out this section from now on. Its not for me. RTR!!!
 

tattooguy21

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and yet we've known from the very very beginning that "Justice Department Policy does not allow for Indicting a sitting President" so why did anyone think Mueller would indict Trump? I certainly didn't. Sure I would have loved to see it but we always knew that it wouldn't happen.
Sir, absolutely solid point that my brain didn't remember. Let me rephrase:

A open list of impeachable offenses and numerous indictments against Trump's family members were expected.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

chanson78

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I know there are a lot of uninformed/stupid voters but that seems to be a huge stretch.
I imagine that this report is worth at least 10 points in his approval ratings. I wouldn’t be surprised if it jumps by 20.

Public opinion is a fickle beast. Clinton went into 2016 with with no one able to forget that she was under investigation. Now the only investigation that the majority of Americans will remember into DJT is finished, with what amounts to “he didn’t do it” being the official position of the DoJ. Those very same types of conversations where everyone could bring up “the emails” are now conversations that no longer have “but collusion” as an avenue to cast doubt on DJT. Right, wrong, or indifferent, any conversation about collusion is going to sound as crazy to people on the fence WRT support of DJT as pizzagate, Benghazi or “the emails.”

2018 is going to be most Americans “hey we tried, but the system is just rigged” moment, and I have a feeling most on the left are going to protest by staying home yet again in 2020. I’m just not seeing a candidate that is going to be able to use the current media landscape with near the capability of DJT. Say what you will about him, but either he, or someone pulling the strings, is a master of playing the American press and it’s love of pushing his narrative by feeding the beast through constant “breaking news: DJT says something controversial.”

IMHO while I do think there was/is collusion it is no longer a viable attack avenue against DJT. If Democrats continue push it, it will further aleniate the middle, making them seem no more stable than those that pushed Benghazi, pizzagate, and the tan suit controversy.
 

crimsonaudio

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Personally, I probably shouldn’t have opened this thread, I knew better. Reading some of the postings I pretty much knew expressing any satisfaction with the reports outcome would cause issues, and it did. To those I made light of in my posts, I apologize. I’ll stay out this section from now on. Its not for me. RTR!!!
I appreciate the post, would love to see you stay - as long as we keep it civil towards one another.
 

bamamc1

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For everyone saying this report isn’t what they were expecting. All we have thus far is a summary by the AG that Trump appointed and that had attacked the investigation prior to his appointment.

An AG that apparently doesn’t think the President obstructed justice despite the President admitting to obstructing justice on national tv (evidently the decision on obstruction was left to Barr). An AG that was likely appointed specifically to help out perception of this investigation and that had previously been a part of helping brush an investigation into Republicans under the rug.

I would hope that Barr would act above board but I’m not sure that I trust his summary in this particular situation.

I for one want to know what is in the actual report before rushing to judgement.
Above bar like coney, struck, page, etc. Correct?
 

selmaborntidefan

Hall of Fame
I imagine that this report is worth at least 10 points in his approval ratings. I wouldn’t be surprised if it jumps by 20.

Public opinion is a fickle beast. Clinton went into 2016 with with no one able to forget that she was under investigation. Now the only investigation that the majority of Americans will remember into DJT is finished, with what amounts to “he didn’t do it” being the official position of the DoJ. Those very same types of conversations where everyone could bring up “the emails” are now conversations that no longer have “but collusion” as an avenue to cast doubt on DJT. Right, wrong, or indifferent, any conversation about collusion is going to sound as crazy to people on the fence WRT support of DJT as pizzagate, Benghazi or “the emails.”

2018 is going to be most Americans “hey we tried, but the system is just rigged” moment, and I have a feeling most on the left are going to protest by staying home yet again in 2020. I’m just not seeing a candidate that is going to be able to use the current media landscape with near the capability of DJT. Say what you will about him, but either he, or someone pulling the strings, is a master of playing the American press and it’s love of pushing his narrative by feeding the beast through constant “breaking news: DJT says something controversial.”

IMHO while I do think there was/is collusion it is no longer a viable attack avenue against DJT. If Democrats continue push it, it will further aleniate the middle, making them seem no more stable than those that pushed Benghazi, pizzagate, and the tan suit controversy.
You pretty well summarized my thoughts on how it will play out here.

Excellent post.....well, except for the fact Trump is likely to get re-elected.


Side note: my Dem buddy and I were discussing this on the phone, and we both agreed that what has the potential to derail Trump with this is TRUMP HIMSELF (big surprise I know). We discussed how Reagan or Bill Clinton or Obama would handle the findings if they were in Trump's shoes, and we agreed the general approach would be:
a) state the findings
b) change the subject and act like a President


When the Tower Commission issued their report on Reagan, he basically said "it was a mistake", minimized the details, and pressed onward. His rating jumped nine points overnight (WaPo). Later on, his subordinates were found guilty but convictions overturned, and it was all but forgotten.

Clinton handled his acquittal with dignity and turned the page. Very few folks remember he reached a deal with Starr's replacement prior to leaving office that stripped him of his law license.

Obama, of course, never had anything like any of these three, but he'd have done the same thing.


The one saving grace here might possibly be (for the Ds) that he will continually keep this story in the news because he's dumber than dirt.
 

CharminTide

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This is why I have the suspicion that Trump is going to ride the Mueller findings into a reelection. He understands how to play the reality tv show bad guy very well...
Only Donald Trump could claim "total exoneration" from a letter that literally states it "does not exonerate" him. The media is so bifurcated in this country that the networks consumed by the right will let him get away with it, and the networks that call him on this are already preaching to the choir.

Whatever Russia collusion Mueller may have found clearly didn't rise to the level of criminality, and it's unlikely that any Congressional investigation will conclude differently, even though political guilt is not the same as criminal guilt. Unfortunately, Trump was allowed to frame this entire investigation as this Russia question, even when there was second side where he was probably more vulnerable. Mueller specifically didn't make a determination on the obstruction of justice question. He merely assembled facts, and IMO those need to be passed to Congress, and they can decide if further investigation is warranted.
 

bamamc1

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This is why I have the suspicion that Trump is going to ride the Mueller findings into a reelection. He understands how to play the reality tv show bad guy very well...


We must protect the Mueller probe? That happened and now what? Get over it. Trump has made all of y’all look like fools.
 

81usaf92

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Only Donald Trump could claim "total exoneration" from a letter that literally states it "does not exonerate" him. The media is so bifurcated in this country that the networks consumed by the right will let him get away with it, and the networks that call him on this are already preaching to the choir.

Whatever Russia collusion Mueller may have found clearly didn't rise to the level of criminality, and it's unlikely that any Congressional investigation will conclude differently, even though political guilt is not the same as criminal guilt. Unfortunately, Trump was allowed to frame this entire investigation as this Russia question, even when there was second side where he was probably more vulnerable. Mueller specifically didn't make a determination on the obstruction of justice question. He merely assembled facts, and IMO those need to be passed to Congress, and they can decide if further investigation is warranted.
The problem is that it wont matter what people that actually understand what the Mueller investigation revealed about the Trump campaign these last 2 years, it only matters what Trump says over and over against most likely a democratic senator that was pushing the narrative that Trump had the Russians involved in our election. It is a huge advantage for Trump whether you like it or not. Trump proved more folks would rather see who Bret Michaels was going to sleep with than what 60 minutes is covering.

Then you get back to the Bernie or Busters who are already blaming Pelosi and mainstream Democrats for not supplying Trumps head on a plate. There is a civil war on the Democratic side already with the 2016 Bernie campaign, Ellison being passed over for Perez for DNC, and the whole super delegate element in the primary voting. I think honestly the best chance for the Democrats may lie in letting Bernie or Warren winning the primary. A lot can change from now until June next year but I fear it is going to be an uphill battle going against an incumbent that is going to continue to call it a witch hunt for the next year and some change.

FWIW I'm voting for the Democrat running regardless of the fact my vote wont count in Alabama. but I feel like this is the Wells Report all over again in which anyone with a brain knows what happened, but ultimately the folks that were pushing for this investigation are turned into the villains because most of the country was expecting the report to show concrete evidence that the person was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
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NationalTitles17

Super Moderator
May 25, 2003
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We must protect the Mueller probe? That happened and now what? Get over it. Trump has made all of y’all look like fools.
The investigation has run its course. It has not been released. The president and his family were not indicted. That's really about all we know now.

Is it good for the president? Yes.

Bad for those who were hoping for Trump to be brought down by the investigation? Probably (remains to be seen, but very likely).

And the people will make up their collective mind next November, which was the most probable outcome all along.

I, for one, am glad no direct evidence was found of criminal conspiracy with the Russians. That is wonderful news for the country. It truly is.

However, Trump did essentially beg them to hack and release the emails that were hacked and released and that is a verifiable fact that should concern every American no matter their political stripes. There are plenty of other actions that should concern us all as well. If you want to downplay any or all of those, fell free - but it just means (to me) that something is amiss if you feel that way.

Finally, I would ask you and those talking about people with no brains or morals or whatever to please calm it down as Brad (crimsonaudio) asked earlier in this thread. I only ask because I am not official moderator here. Should you wish to continue with name calling or skirt the edge of it Brad will be along shortly enough to make up his own mind about the behavior. This is a high emotion day, apparently, for partisans and fans/anti-fans of the president. So keeping the emotion down would be appreciated.
 

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