News Article: Mueller Delivers Report on Russia Investigation to Attorney General

jthomas666

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A nice dose of perspective"

The Mueller Probe Was an Unmitigated SuccessThe scandal is how much corruption it exposed—and how much turns out to have been perfectly legal.

The Mueller investigation has been an unmitigated success in exposing political corruption. In the case of Paul Manafort, the corruption was criminal. In the case of Trump, the corruption doesn’t seem to have transgressed any laws. As Michael Kinsley famously quipped, “The scandal isn’t what’s illegal; the scandal is what’s legal.” Lying to the electorate, adjusting foreign policy for the sake of personal lucre, and undermining an investigation seem to me pretty sound impeachable offenses—they might also happen to be technically legal.
 

CharminTide

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The problem is that it wont matter what people that actually understand what the Mueller investigation revealed about the Trump campaign these last 2 years, it only matters what Trump says over and over against most likely a democratic senator that was pushing the narrative that Trump had the Russians involved in our election. It is a huge advantage for Trump whether you like it or not. Trump proved more folks would rather see who Bret Michaels was going to sleep with than what 60 minutes is covering.

Then you get back to the Bernie or Busters who are already blaming Pelosi and mainstream Democrats for not supplying Trumps head on a plate. There is a civil war on the Democratic side already with the 2016 Bernie campaign, Ellison being passed over for Perez for DNC, and the whole super delegate element in the primary voting. I think honestly the best chance for the Democrats may lie in letting Bernie or Warren winning the primary. A lot can change from now until June next year but I fear it is going to be an uphill battle going against an incumbent that is going to continue to call it a witch hunt for the next year and some change.

FWIW I'm voting for the Democrat running regardless of the fact my vote wont count in Alabama. but I feel like this is the Wells Report all over again in which anyone with a brain knows what happened, but ultimately the folks that were pushing for this investigation are turned into the villains because most of the country was expecting the report to show concrete evidence that the person was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
I don't disagree with your broad points, and the only way for the narrative to change is if there's some pretty damning stuff in the part that Mueller investigated, but declined to make a prosecutorial judgement on. While Barr has said that the obstruction of justice evidence Mueller collected is not criminal, he also famously authored a piece last year that stated the only way a president can obstruct justice is extremely narrow in scope, and that he believes Mueller's (and most people's) interpretations are incorrect. Dems need to see what is actually there and decide if it's worth pursuing at the committee level. If they do investigate and end up handing Trump another PR win closer to the election, it will be worse. So they'll need to think hard about the risk involved.

Barr's "exoneration" on the Russia stuff was also extremely specific, in that he referred to coordination with the Russian government only, omitting Russian individuals or organizations like WikiLeaks, both of which we know Trump was aware his campaign was contacting. It wipes free the Roger Stone --> WikiLeaks --> Trump connection that we learned from Cohen, for instance. But that damage has largely been done now, thanks to the AG's letter.
 

GrayTide

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The investigation has run its course. It has not been released. The president and his family were not indicted. That's really about all we know now.

Is it good for the president? Yes.

Bad for those who were hoping for Trump to be brought down by the investigation? Probably (remains to be seen, but very likely).

And the people will make up their collective mind next November, which was the most probable outcome all along.

I, for one, am glad no direct evidence was found of criminal conspiracy with the Russians. That is wonderful news for the country. It truly is.

However, Trump did essentially beg them to hack and release the emails that were hacked and released and that is a verifiable fact that should concern every American no matter their political stripes. There are plenty of other actions that should concern us all as well. If you want to downplay any or all of those, fell free - but it just means (to me) that something is amiss if you feel that way.

Finally, I would ask you and those talking about people with no brains or morals or whatever to please calm it down as Brad (crimsonaudio) asked earlier in this thread. I only ask because I am not official moderator here. Should you wish to continue with name calling or skirt the edge of it Brad will be along shortly enough to make up his own mind about the behavior. This is a high emotion day, apparently, for partisans and fans/anti-fans of the president. So keeping the emotion down would be appreciated.
I am letting this go, at least for the time being, but believe NT17's bolded sentence is the ultimate resolve. Two thumbs up.
 

MattinBama

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Pretty long Twitter thread but worth reading.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629 <--- Working link

If it is in fact true that Mueller was only looking at IRA/Russian government and the campaign conspiracy then this investigation was not what most of us believed it to be the entire time as there is plenty of public information available that would have been ignored by this investigation.

 

MattinBama

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So many folks love to spout about how stupid Trump is, but he knows what he's doing...
He is stupid on many traditional levels, but I have no doubts about his aptitude for low cunning endeavors in particular conning folks and twisting things to serve his interests. Although I do believe if he had more intelligence (or less dementia as the case may be) he could wiggle through stuff without doing so much damage to himself in the process.
 

UAH

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I think this reply sums it up:

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1109913958453006337

So many folks love to spout about how stupid Trump is, but he knows what he's doing...

History is replete with megalomaniacal leaders who received wide acclaim only to ultimately plunge themselves and millions of others into disastrous consequences. Hopefully this reality show huckster will not bring us to such a cataclysmic end.

 

crimsonaudio

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Yah, don't take my comment about people viewing him as stupid as anything other than it is - a reminder / warning against underestimating him and his ability to manipulate those who vote for him.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Pretty long Twitter thread but worth reading.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629 <--- Working link

If it is in fact true that Mueller was only looking at IRA/Russian government and the campaign conspiracy then this investigation was not what most of us believed it to be the entire time as there is plenty of public information available that would have been ignored by this investigation.

The most disturbing matter to come to light, to me at least, was the fact that Trump was actively pursuing business interests with people personally close to Putin. He first denied this vehemently and then finally admitted it. The fact that he is beholden in some way to Putin comes through loud and clear. It's disappointing that this apparently wasn't even in the purview of the investigation...
 

UAH

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He is stupid on many traditional levels, but I have no doubts about his aptitude for low cunning endeavors in particular conning folks and twisting things to serve his interests. Although I do believe if he had more intelligence (or less dementia as the case may be) he could wiggle through stuff without doing so much damage to himself in the process.
Independent news sources from the beginning have held that the Russian investigation has effectively been a red herring that has distracted the public while the oligarchs have cemented their grip on the levers of power. While the corporate media has breathlessly reported and analyzed every possible plot twist in the Mueller Saga the robber barons have escaped out the back door with $ trillions leaving us dramatically poorer with dirty water, dirty air and unable to afford basic health care. For turning his blind eye to all of this Trump is rewarded by being allowed to market influence to the highest bidder and effectively accept foreign bribes through his grandiose properties.

Through it all an amazing number will contend that the orange grifter, who never had an original thought in his head, is some kind of awesome genius!
 

MattinBama

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Yah, don't take my comment about people viewing him as stupid as anything other than it is - a reminder / warning against underestimating him and his ability to manipulate those who vote for him.
Oh yeah. He's very good at getting his message out first and manipulating the media to promote it even when it's completely false. They fall for it over and over again. It appears that it's possible it's the case with this story (many things Barr states don't add up with what we know of the Mueller investigation from Manafort filings, etc.).

They did it with Devin Nunes' memo back 400 years ago and a lot of things where we find out later that the initial story is almost completely false. But he got his story out first. His supporters proclaim victory and then stick their fingers in their ears when the real story starts coming out. The casual observers take brief note of the headline and those that actually follow it are left shouting into the void. It's sad how easily it works in this day and age where fact checking can't keep up with the steady flow of BS that rolls out and how little people truly care.
 

crimsonaudio

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how little people truly care.
That's the most frustrating part of all aspects of government - unless / until it's something that will materially affect them directly, most people have no interest in being informed. The national debt is the perfect example - it literally affects us all (and will far more so, at some point), yet people (generally speaking) don't care. It would be easy enough to address it if more people were concerned by it, but as long as they get their refund checks, mosts folks don't really care.
 

CrimsonNagus

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https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629 <--- Working link

If it is in fact true that Mueller was only looking at IRA/Russian government and the campaign conspiracy then this investigation was not what most of us believed it to be the entire time as there is plenty of public information available that would have been ignored by this investigation.
If it is true that the Mueller investigation only focused on the IRA/Russian hackers angle then the last 2 years was a waste of time.
 

MattinBama

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If it is true that the Mueller investigation only focused on the IRA/Russian hackers angle then the last 2 years was a waste of time.
I still wouldn't say it was a waste of time as it accomplished things.

There are definitely some things not adding up with Barr's statement.

For example- Just a few weeks ago Mueller's top prosecutor mentioned to the judge that Manafort giving polling data to a Kremlin-connected person went to the heart of their probe.
 

UAH

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Pretty long Twitter thread but worth reading.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1109913558333210629 <--- Working link

If it is in fact true that Mueller was only looking at IRA/Russian government and the campaign conspiracy then this investigation was not what most of us believed it to be the entire time as there is plenty of public information available that would have been ignored by this investigation.

My thought, at the time, had been that the talk of Mueller reviewing notes from Comey and others to assess Trump's guilt in terms of obstruction of justice was on its face a dead end road. I once had an work associate who would have described that as causing ED. In other words silliness! I tend to think that Mueller's investigation may have been constrained in a manner that isn't clear to us or that he may have purposefully chosen to constrain his investigation and findings based on his assessment of circumstances.

As others have written, we have not seen the report, but one could conclude that the public would have been better served if the scope of the investigation had been communicated more clearly over the prior two years.

If one believes that Comey's mishandling of the Clinton email investigation resulted in Trump being elected in the first place, it may be ultimately determined, that the limited Mueller investigation has led to his successful reelection.