NCAA Portal Talk

RollTide_HTTR

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It is impossible to tell at this point, in part because how people view college athletics and how much they are willing to donate at all could be affected. Up until now the donations were seen as helping amateur athletes. You don't see boosters for professional sports, not simply because it would violate their various cap rules and such but because it just doesn't make sense to donate money to compensated professionals. So, we really have no idea where this will go in terms of the billions college athletics are given annually.


That's partially true, it's one reason that semi-pro football always fails. The actual worth of most of these athletes on the open market really isn't that high, it's the loyalty to the school the funds this machine. Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel were worth a tremendous amount while in college, more then they've proven to be worth as professional athletes. That is due to the loyalty and enthusiasm for college sports.

However, that's not the only thing I'm getting at here in terms of the NIL system. If the school for instance was paying a player, they could look at their bottom line and figure out pay commensurate with what the player is contributing. They could look at the revenue, say ok we're selling this many tickets, we have this much in TV revenue, and we think this player is worth X amount of that.

Due to the way NIL works and is being predictably abused, what people are being paid has nothing to do with any of that. The 25K interviews were as good an example as I could think of. I am fairly certain 25,000 people didn't even read those interviews, the money had nothing to do with actual worth of anything, just how much someone wanted to pay to make them happy. That's the issue here, it's based on the corrupt system of enticing players and corrupt behavior from boosters.

Before there was an effective salary cap because you couldn't pay a player more than you could hide, so it was kept fairly reasonable. Now though? There is no cap, there is no limit, it's kind of like if you could openly bribe politicians (it is obviously less ethically dubious but it's still paying players to do what you want them to do). I would add that the notion that these NIL deals are not coming with strings attached is as absurd as the notion that these NIL deals really were going to be NIL deals. Of course there are strings attached, it's just a matter of being clever enough to attach the strings correctly.

At this point it's not even about what should or shouldn't happen. It's just about understanding what is happening.
Fair enough. I get your concerns

But wouldn't a salary cap be the opposite of a free market
 

B1GTide

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But wouldn't a salary cap be the opposite of a free market
It would be illegal. But he is right about some of these players getting paid more than their their NIL is really worth in the market.

FWIW, DJU is a guy who was not overpaid just to steer him to Clemson. Dr. Pepper paid him based on what they thought he was worth - had nothing to do with Clemson. That is going to be the standard for national brands. It is the regional/local deal that is more likely to be grossly overvalued.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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It would be illegal. But he is right about some of these players getting paid more than their their NIL is really worth in the market.

FWIW, DJU is a guy who was not overpaid just to steer him to Clemson. Dr. Pepper paid him based on what they thought he was worth - had nothing to do with Clemson. That is going to be the standard for national brands. It is the regional/local deal that is more likely to be grossly overvalued.
I would bet that will happen to a lot of QBs at least at first. Arch Manning is going to make gobs of money.
 

AlexanderFan

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It would be illegal. But he is right about some of these players getting paid more than their their NIL is really worth in the market.

FWIW, DJU is a guy who was not overpaid just to steer him to Clemson. Dr. Pepper paid him based on what they thought he was worth - had nothing to do with Clemson. That is going to be the standard for national brands. It is the regional/local deal that is more likely to be grossly overvalued.
Big Bill’s car lots in Austin dropping 2.0 million for Arch Manning to do some summer commercials and such. It will be the affluent alumni footing these bills
 
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teamplayer

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To repeat, SMU's practices are now legal. The millions being thrown around are unbelievable. And the info comes from an unimpeachable source...
That is what still baffles me. I suppose it is just about perspective because I've never had extra millions to throw around willy nilly. However, I can't imagine that I would give it to some kid to play ball at my university even if I did. Still, I do understand that to some folks money truly is no object, and for them it becomes about competition with other wealthy elites or pride or something of which I am simply not aware.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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That is what still baffles me. I suppose it is just about perspective because I've never had extra millions to throw around willy nilly. However, I can't imagine that I would give it to some kid to play ball at my university even if I did. Still, I do understand that to some folks money truly is no object, and for them it becomes about competition with other wealthy elites or pride or something of which I am simply not aware.
There is a wealth level where people actually start looking for new ways to spend their money. It's an interesting world.
 
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B1GTide

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That is what still baffles me. I suppose it is just about perspective because I've never had extra millions to throw around willy nilly. However, I can't imagine that I would give it to some kid to play ball at my university even if I did. Still, I do understand that to some folks money truly is no object, and for them it becomes about competition with other wealthy elites or pride or something of which I am simply not aware.
It is also about ego. In their circles, this is exactly the kind of thing that would bring them elevated status.
 

B1GTide

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I think these kids' performances will suffer because of it. Why bust your butt if you already have the money at 18-19 years old. No reason to improve to go to the NFL.
If they get paid many millions of dollars - maybe. But remember, those who get paid that much have a whole lot more money waiting for them in the NFL - a whole lot more. Think Kyler Murray. He had a huge MLB check that he returned to play football.

For the average player, the amount that they will get paid will not even come close to the potential payday that the NFL offers.

It could have an impact with some kids, but I suspect that those are the ones who would have been distracted by other things anyway.
 

KrAzY3

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Fair enough. I get your concerns

But wouldn't a salary cap be the opposite of a free market
We could have a lengthy discussion about the notion of amateur athletics. I have had discussions where I had to explain to people that were baffled by the popularity of college football, that it wasn't a lower level of football so much as it was the top level of amateur sport. College football as we knew it was the peak of something that started with little kids running around at their local municipal park or what ever, where no one was getting paid, in fact everything was being paid for by supporters (namely parents). This advanced all the way up to college football which took this bake sale mentality and alumni support to an extreme.

What college football now has to do is find its place. The Olympics used to be amateur, now they are not (it's also been shown to be incredibly corrupt but that's another story). It wasn't destroyed in the process. However, there are sports which have become funded by the super wealthy to the point that that only the super wealthy can even compete in them. Larry Ellison spent hundreds of millions on the America's Cup, which while insane sounds a bit familiar to what I showed Phil Knight doing for Oregon. So part of the risk there is a sport that becomes too expensive for most to even compete in.

Now, what does that have to do with caps and free markets and so on. I guess you might be able to substitute the word capitalism to better explain what I'm getting at, which infers "for profit" which what we're discussing clearly isn't. On the other hand, you can bring up laissez-faire which is basically what you are alluding to, the notion that you shouldn't interfere. The thing is there is interference! There's a lot of interference and that's a big part of the issue. The first NIL laws came from the government, which is the precise entity that's supposed not to interfere according to laissez-faire! The schools are completely powerless in all of this really, they can't do anything. They can't pay the players and they can't forbid the players from being paid either.

Since we've gone this far, I want to further explain where I think people some people might not appreciate the nature of voluntarism as it pertains to college sports. College sport was always voluntary, not compulsory. This means once you agreed to go to a college, and participate in their sports, you were obligated to their rules. That's how laissez-faire actually works. You get to do what you want by having a choice, but those choices are not homogeneous. In this case the choice was to participate in a sport that was funded well beyond what it actually earned, and you got a host of things in return including an education, but you were not paid in cash.

What we are witnessing is someone coming into this completely voluntary thing, and saying you have to do this and you have to do that. That's not free anything. So now we have the amateur model that's being twisted into something it wasn't built to be. From a libertarian perspective, and I am a libertarian, it's actually pretty offensive to tell an entity it has to do something in particular, in this case they have to allow compensated professionals.

This is a whole can of worms, but it's just an incompatibility that's resulting in what we are witnessing. Remember though, this is something that loses money! This has to be emphasized heavily. College athletics lose money! College football as a whole also loses money! It's funded well beyond what it earns because people have grown accustomed to supporting this amateur model financially. It's now this bizarre hybrid and it just doesn't make any sense in the current state but I'm not even sure how one goes about allowing it to make sense. It's a square peg being told it has to go into a round hole.
 
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Con

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If they get paid many millions of dollars - maybe. But remember, those who get paid that much have a whole lot more money waiting for them in the NFL - a whole lot more. Think Kyler Murray. He had a huge MLB check that he returned to play football.

For the average player, the amount that they will get paid will not even come close to the potential payday that the NFL offers.

It could have an impact with some kids, but I suspect that those are the ones who would have been distracted by other things anyway.
I wonder how much the family dynamic will play into this? If the people in your life don't have YOUR best interests in mind, it could be tough on the kids staying motivated.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I wonder how much the family dynamic will play into this? If the people in your life don't have YOUR best interests in mind, it could be tough on the kids staying motivated.
I have heard that the Mannings, for example, are not that impressed with the front end dollars being offered. They are looking down the road, not only to the NFL, but beyond, post football. Of course, they have the assets to be able to do that...
 

81usaf92

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Ellison spent hundreds of millions on the America's Cup, which while insane sounds a bit familiar to what I showed Phil Knight doing for Oregon. So part of the risk there is a sport that becomes too expensive for most to even compete in.
You keep bringing up Phil Knight as this boogeyman but you never acknowledge how little his money into the school really amounts to in terms of talent and success. Oregon is not really dominant in any sport even by PAC 12 standards. Their boost as an athletic department more coincides with USC’s probation. They have always been a high second tier program. They were occasionally elevated in the Belotti era, and that was far before anyone started making the Phil Knight’s connection to Oregon.

If there are any potential boogeymen in the NIL then they are the LA schools. Everyone wants to say Texas and aTm, but everyone keeps missing the point that Texas and aTm have always had these boosters with big cash. LA has actually been caught paying for top talent for NCs.

Money doesn’t decide championships but it can help under the right conditions. There is no cap in the MLB and it’s widely known that the Yankees and Dodgers are 2 of the programs with the biggest payrolls. But when we ask “who has more WS and WS in the last 30 years between the Dodgers and Braves?” What do we come up with? Or “in the last 10 years who has been to more WSs between the Yankees and Royals?”

The problem with money in CFB is that there are only a limited amount of spots in each draft class that many boosters are going to disagree with who deserves to be there. That’s why I don’t fear Texas. It’s a bunch of morons with money who know very little about football let alone what makes a good football player. So trusting them to make a strong recruiting class is like trusting an arsonist with a box of matches.
 

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