Game Thread: NFL conference championship round (Tampa Bay vs Kansas City for SUPER BOWL LV)

selmaborntidefan

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You want a mind bender.... how good was Brett Favre compared to his peers and against quarterbacks like Elway, Marino, Montana ,and Peyton? Because there are so many that look at him as a top 5 of all time.
I think Favre was one of the most overrated QBs in history.

In the entire history of the nfl, only one player has ever thrown an overtime interception in not one not two but three playoff games. Favre did it in both the 07 and 09 NFC title games as well as the 03 divisional game against Philly.

Most of his impressive stats are due simply to the fact that other than a bunch of kickers and Jerry Rice, he played more games than anyone. Now I don’t sell that short since it IS important but most of his stats fall in the Nolan Ryan (another overrated player) category: he compiled stats because he was healthy and played a long time.

I’m not saying he wasn’t any good; I’m just saying if he met his reputation on the street, they wouldn’t recognize each other.

His rep is Peyton but he’s closer to Eli. Yes he’s much better than Eli but he’s more like Eli than he is like Peyton.
 
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81usaf92

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I think Favre was one of the most overrated QBs in history.

In the entire history of the nfl, only one player has ever thrown an overtime interception in not one not two but three playoff games. Favre did it in both the 07 and 09 NFC title games as well as the 03 divisional game against Philly.

Most of his impressive stats are due simply to the fact that other than a bunch of kickers and Jerry Rice, he played more games than anyone. Now I don’t sell that short since it IS important but most of his stats fall in the Nolan Ryan (another overrated player) category: he compiled stats because he was healthy and played a long time.

I’m not saying he wasn’t any good; I’m just saying if he met his reputation on the street, they wouldn’t recognize each other.

His rep is Peyton but he’s closer to Eli. Yes he’s much better than Eli but he’s more like Eli than he is like Peyton.
I see Tua as Brett Favre 2.0. A highly talented arm but doesn’t understand how to read a defense or the concept of playing for another down. Even though Peyton lost more playoff games than Favre, and couldn’t win a game that was cold I would still take him over Favre.

Favre was a good player but he is constantly put in GOAT and top 5 debates because of his more favorable stats. Favorable stats tell me Emmitt Smith is a better running back than Walter Payton and Barry Sanders.

FTR Favre is a legit HOF, but compared to Steve Young, Aikman, and Kelly I really don’t think he measures up.

My overall point is that stats can form any opinion you want to with certain players or teams.
 

81usaf92

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Here is a stat...

NFC championships:

Brady 1
Rodgers 1
Brees 1


FTR Wilson has the most NFC titles out of active qbs


But really think about this. Rodgers has been to 5 NFC title games and has crapped the bed 4 times and was lucky to win the one that he did. We heard how this time was going to be different , how this was the best Packers team since 2010, and how the Frozen Tundra of Lambeau was going to aid him to victory. Yet its another reminder that betting on the Packers to finish the deal is foolish. In their 4 losses (NFCCGs) two were blowouts to Ryan and Jimmy G, 1 was a bonkers duel to TB, and one still defies logic in how they lost to Seattle in 2014. Seriously how do you lose a game in which you are leading 19-7 with 3 minutes to go?

After 2010, I heard non stop Rodgers will get 2-4 rings. He hasnt even gotten back to the Super bowl.
 

B1GTide

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Here is a stat...

NFC championships:

Brady 1
Rodgers 1
Brees 1


FTR Wilson has the most NFC titles out of active qbs


But really think about this. Rodgers has been to 5 NFC title games and has crapped the bed 4 times and was lucky to win the one that he did. We heard how this time was going to be different , how this was the best Packers team since 2010, and how the Frozen Tundra of Lambeau was going to aid him to victory. Yet its another reminder that betting on the Packers to finish the deal is foolish. In their 4 losses (NFCCGs) two were blowouts to Ryan and Jimmy G, 1 was a bonkers duel to TB, and one still defies logic in how they lost to Seattle in 2014. Seriously how do you lose a game in which you are leading 19-7 with 3 minutes to go?

After 2010, I heard non stop Rodgers will get 2-4 rings. He hasnt even gotten back to the Super bowl.
To be fair, last night's loss was not on Rogers. He played very well. He just did not play on the better team.

Rogers had a much better game than Brady. His team still lost. 🤷‍♂️
 

81usaf92

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To be fair, last night's loss was not on Rogers. He played very well. He just did not play on the better team.

Rogers had a much better game than Brady. His team still lost. 🤷‍♂️
What is 100% on Rodgers is their red zone inefficiency. Lazard would’ve walked in twice had he stopped targeting adams. Then another time he had 5 yards of open grass to the end zone but forced a horrible ball to adams again.

As for who played better it really depends on what half. Brady totally outclassed him in the 1st half and Rodgers did in the 2nd. But in the end no one remembers the loser’s efforts over the winner’s triumph. I mean who really remembers Brady throwing for 500 yards in a SB?

But it really wasn’t my point to blame it on Rodgers. It’s to say how hard it is to reach the SB. Everyone thinks Mahomes is going to win 3-4 but with his mammoth contract how can you really tell if this one isn’t his last one. There are only 4 active quarterbacks that have made it to multiple Super Bowls as starters. There was a reason many players wanted to come to Tampa for less pay and it was for maybe the hope to possibly get to one of these things. There are great players who have never seen a conference championship game.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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I'll grant I may be a simpleton, but here's how I look at it: "how many truly GREAT - not very good but great - QBs can you actually have in the league at any one time?" That's difficult to answer, but it's not impossible to set some reasonable parameters, either.

In Favre's early days, there were 28 teams in the league, which advanced to 32. So isn't it reasonable to say that your "great" QBs are limited to the top 10% or someone right on the cusp of those. Granted, it’s theoretically possible to have 4-5 greats all playing at the same time although most of the time you’d find that the greats are in their late years. You might have 10 very good QBs but it’s rare to have more than 3 HOF level ones.

I think it’s not too much to say that in the years 1995-96-97, Brett Favre was the best QB in the nfl or - at minimum he was perceived as such both in the league and in the press as well as amongst fans. The problem, though, is that people remember his peak as though he was Brady or Manning and had 10-15 stellar years rather than 3 stellar years, some good ones and some hanging around to collect money years. You’d be hard-pressed imho to say Favre’s 95-97 was really any better than Kurt Warner’s 1999-2001 period. And as much as I admire Warner, he was a good QB on some very good teams that shot across the NFL like a comet for a few years. Warner left and if the Rams don’t outsmart themselves, it’s possible they go back to the Super Bowl in 2003 with Bulger.

What Warner has that Favre doesn’t is he took the AZ Cardinals to within 2 minutes of a championship. Favre is more in the Warner class than the Montana group. Yes -he’s a Hall of Famer but few studs came up bigger duds when the chips were down than Favre himself. Even his Super Bowl win was almost a next-level fluke. Even the year they won it, the Packers lost to the Cowboys, 21-6. If Carolina doesn’t knock Dallas out, Favre might well be in that “greatest to not win a ring” discussion. And on top of that he gets lucky eclogue yo face a Patriots team coming apart internally that spends the 2 weeks prior to the big game making headlines because their coach may or may not be leaving.
 
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81usaf92

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If I’m Aaron Rodgers I’m begging Tennessee, Atlanta, or New Orleans to get stupid with trades to get me. He will not win a SB with Green Bay.
 

81usaf92

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I'll grant I may be a simpleton, but here's how I look at it: "how many truly GREAT - not very good but great - QBs can you actually have in the league at any one time?" That's difficult to answer, but it's not impossible to set some reasonable parameters, either.

In Favre's early days, there were 28 teams in the league, which advanced to 32. So isn't it reasonable to say that your "great" QBs are limited to the top 10% or someone right on the cusp of those. Granted, it’s theoretically possible to have 4-5 greats all playing at the same time although most of the time you’d find that the greats are in their late years. You might have 10 very good QBs but it’s rare to have more than 3 HOF level ones.

I think it’s not too much to say that in the years 1995-96-97, Brett Favre was the best QB in the nfl or - at minimum he was perceived as such both in the league and in the press as well as amongst fans. The problem, though, is that people remember his peak as though he was Brady or Manning and had 10-15 stellar years rather than 3 stellar years, some good ones and some hanging around to collect money years. You’d be hard-pressed imho to say Favre’s 95-97 was really any better than Kurt Warner’s 1999-2001 period. And as much as I admire Warner, he was a good QB on some very good teams that shot across the NFL like a comet for a few years. Warner left and if the Rams don’t outsmart themselves, it’s possible they go back to the Super Bowl in 2003 with Bulger.

What Warner has that Favre doesn’t is he took the AZ Cardinals to within 2 minutes of a championship. Favre is more in the Warner class than the Montana group. Yes -he’s a Hall of Famer but few studs came up bigger duds when the chips were down than Favre himself. Even his Super Bowl win was almost a next-level fluke. Even the year they won it, the Packers lost to the Cowboys, 21-6. If Carolina doesn’t knock Dallas out, Favre might well be in that “greatest to not win a ring” discussion. And on top of that he gets lucky eclogue yo face a Patriots team coming apart internally that spends the 2 weeks prior to the big game making headlines because their coach may or may not be leaving.
If there is a category that Favre is in the it’s whatever one Ben Roethlisberger is in. I think Kelly, Warner, Aikman, and Young were the best 90’s qbs. Bledsoe and Favre were after them. I think Elway and Marino were winding down with Elway getting fortunate at the end.
 

B1GTide

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If I’m Aaron Rodgers I’m begging Tennessee, Atlanta, or New Orleans to get stupid with trades to get me. He will not win a SB with Green Bay.
Green Bay is not even thinking about trading him after an MVP season and he is too old for any team to pay the price it would take to change their minds.

Although, in my mind, Henry is the 2020 MVP.
 
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B1GTide

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If there is a category that Favre is in the it’s whatever one Ben Roethlisberger is in. I think Kelly, Warner, Aikman, and Young were the best 90’s qbs. Bledsoe and Favre were after them. I think Elway and Marino were winding down with Elway getting fortunate at the end.
Aikman, like Bradshaw, gets too much credit for playing on the best teams of their generations. Those teams would have won multiple super bowls with almost any QB of their eras.
 
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81usaf92

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Green Bay is not even thinking about trading him after an MVP season and he is too old for any team to pay the price it would take to change their minds.

Although, in my mind, Henry is the 2020 MVP.
The interview yesterday seemed like Rodgers has lost faith in Green Bay. I think he wants out.
 

81usaf92

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I don't blame him for feeling down yesterday, but he isn't going to try to force a trade.
But you got to wonder... does the quest for another ring weigh into he renegotiation in the next few years. Remember the Packers traded up to get a quarterback in this last draft.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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If there is a category that Favre is in the it’s whatever one Ben Roethlisberger is in. I think Kelly, Warner, Aikman, and Young were the best 90’s qbs. Bledsoe and Favre were after them. I think Elway and Marino were winding down with Elway getting fortunate at the end.
I think that's reasonable.

I'm a bit torn on how good Aikman really was. Yes, he was a steady QB on a dynasty, but if you had put Aikman on the Bills and Jim Kelly on the Cowboys.....would the Bills have still made the Super Bowls they lost? I'm not totally convinced on that one.
 
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B1GTide

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But you got to wonder... does the quest for another ring weigh into he renegotiation in the next few years. Remember the Packers traded up to get a quarterback in this last draft.
They traded up to get a clipboard holder, not the next Rogers.