PAC12 "Will have response" to SEC's moves / May impact CFP expansion

[Crimson1967]

Wichita St. has billionaire backing to.

The fans don't come to see them play. Not even people in Houston care about them. May be some of that billionaire money is going straight to the Big 12's pockets though, I know the Fed Ex guy tries to buy Memphis' way into the Big 12 once.

If you were the Big XII, who would you have invited?

 

[KrAzY3]

If you were the Big XII, who would you have invited?

Well, firstly we have to look at this from the last time they needed to add teams. I criticized the move at the time because it was repeating past mistakes and trying to keep the conference Texas-centric when that was part of the problem in the first place!

Nebraska left because it was too centered on Texas! Missouri, Colorado, even A&M left to go to a conference with 0 other Texas teams. So this has to be underlined and circled. The addition of West Virginia and TCU were weak and half hearted additions, it was like they tried to find the inferior versions of Nebraska and Texas A&M instead of the best possible additions. They didn't even bother trying to replace Missouri or Colorado.

So while they sat on their hands, the ACC scooped up Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville. Now, Louisville was probably the best possible athletic program available. They are a top 20 athletic department. Their basketball program generates tens of millions in positive revenue every year and they at this point in time earn about as much as Clemson does, that's how strong that athletic department is. Their football team has good attendance to, twice as much as Houston. So, I was unimpressed at the time because the Big 12 did a weak expansion and even now Louisville and Pitt (which would have paired well with West Virginia, 43K attendance is solid for the type of teams we're talking about) would have been solid moves.

I might have still gone with TCU but at the time I would have strongly considered BYU as well. Louisville for sure though and probably four teams total. Now, as to who else to add now I would say Boise State, Memphis, and Eastern Carolina (all have better attendance and more relative popularity within their state) are solid considerations given the hole the Big 12 dug for themselves. However had they made the right move earlier, they might not be in this mess in the first place since they'd have had a better TV deal. They were stupid and short sighted.

The solution to the Big 12's problem is not to have 4 teams in the state of Texas, that much I can say for sure.

Edit: To provide some context and contrast, if you remove public funds from the equation, Boise State's (35 million) athletic department actually earns more money than Houston's (28 million). This despite the fact that every year they get triple the infusion of public funds.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

If name accuracy is important, the SEC jumped the shark during the last expansion.

Except it’s not usually Southerners boasting about an “emphasis on academics” that apparently can’t count, LOL!

On a more serious note, though, the SEC has an advantage the others don’t have: just stop what it means like KFC did and call yourselves “the SEC.”

I do think the number thing is amusing but other than “can’t count” jokes (funnier in Colorado of course), I don’t care and get why they do it.

 

[TexasBama]

Houston is a financially backed sleeping giant that both Texas and Oklahoma feared being included at the table. Had they been included in the Big XII a few years ago then there is a possibility that they might’ve taken off like Miami did when they put up the wall in southern Florida. No I’m not saying “national championships” I’m saying a constant pain in the big dogs side. There may have been a wall around the Houston area that only Houston and aTm would have access to.

Fan support and the lack of interest has never been the reason that Houston wasn’t included in expansion. It’s fear.

UH was considered for SEC membership - I don’t know how seriously - when Arkansas was added.

 

[TexasBama]

Well, firstly we have to look at this from the last time they needed to add teams. I criticized the move at the time because it was repeating past mistakes and trying to keep the conference Texas-centric when that was part of the problem in the first place!

Nebraska left because it was too centered on Texas! Missouri, Colorado, even A&M left to go to a conference with 0 other Texas teams. So this has to be underlined and circled. The addition of West Virginia and TCU were weak and half hearted additions, it was like they tried to find the inferior versions of Nebraska and Texas A&M instead of the best possible additions. They didn't even bother trying to replace Missouri or Colorado.

So while they sat on their hands, the ACC scooped up Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville. Now, Louisville was probably the best possible athletic program available. They are a top 20 athletic department. Their basketball program generates tens of millions in positive revenue every year and they at this point in time earn about as much as Clemson does, that's how strong that athletic department is. Their football team has good attendance to, twice as much as Houston. So, I was unimpressed at the time because the Big 12 did a weak expansion and even now Louisville and Pitt (which would have paired well with West Virginia, 43K attendance is solid for the type of teams we're talking about) would have been solid moves.

I might have still gone with TCU but at the time I would have strongly considered BYU as well. Louisville for sure though and probably four teams total. Now, as to who else to add now I would say Boise State, Memphis, and Eastern Carolina (all have better attendance and more relative popularity within their state) are solid considerations given the hole the Big 12 dug for themselves. However had they made the right move earlier, they might not be in this mess in the first place since they'd have had a better TV deal. They were stupid and short sighted.

The solution to the Big 12's problem is not to have 4 teams in the state of Texas, that much I can say for sure.

Edit: To provide some context and contrast, if you remove public funds from the equation, Boise State's (35 million) athletic department actually earns more money than Houston's (28 million). This despite the fact that every year they get triple the infusion of public funds.

Baylor would not have been in the Big 12 to begin with had it not been for Ann Richards.

Texas and TAMU are the only two schools that get the oil money. And their endowments are massive. UH was actually administered by the Houston Indepedent School District - they administers elementary and high schools here - until after WW2. Probably where the nickname Cougar High comes from. Still, the 3 largest schools in Texas by student population are UT, TAMU, and UH.

 

[Al A Bama]

Baylor would not have been in the Big 12 to begin with had it not been for Ann Richards.

Texas and TAMU are the only two schools that get the oil money. And their endowments are massive. UH was actually administered by the Houston Indepedent School District - they administers elementary and high schools here - until after WW2. Probably where the nickname Cougar High comes from. Still, the 3 largest schools in Texas by student population are UT, TAMU, and UH.

Tilman Fertitta says hi. He is president of the Board of Regents at UH.

 

[KrAzY3]

Baylor would not have been in the Big 12 to begin with had it not been for Ann Richards.

I was just thinking about how pointless the addition of Baylor was to the Big 12. By now, after years of power conference revenue their position is not as weak but if the Big 12 had added a solid program from another state at the time (like Louisville or Memphis) it could have lead to a more balanced and healthy conference. I have nothing against the state of Texas and have plenty of family members that live there. It just doesn't seem to have been healthy to the conference to be so imbalanced.

They chose to take a healthy conference of 8 teams headquartered in Missouri and turn it into a 12 team conference centered around around one state. Now half of those 8 teams are gone...

By the way because I like considering these things, I think (benefit if hindsight of course) the four programs I would have added to the Big 12 after the loss of four programs would have been West Virginia, Cincy, Pitt, and Louisville. Instead of putting West Virginia on an island it would have created a nice four state cluster and some regional interest.

 

[TexasBama]

Tilman Fertitta says hi. He is president of the Board of Regents at UH.

I know. And he’s having Well published money issues. But UH isn’t on this list

Permanent University Fund - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

ETA - the UT endowment is about $30 billion. The only schools with bigger endowments are Harvard, and Yale - (maybe).

 

[Crimson1967]

When the Big XII was formed I remember thinking it was a bad deal for the four SWC members. I mean, the other eight had been together and could outvote the ones down in Texas.

Good call on my part.

 

[TideEngineer08]

When the Big XII was formed I remember thinking it was a bad deal for the four SWC members. I mean, the other eight had been together and could outvote the ones down in Texas.

Good call on my part.

Well this just proves how neither conference was built to last. In the old days, before TV took over, things floated along alright. But a small conference, with one or two dominant powers who run everything, was never going to last in the age of TV money.

Nebraska and Oklahoma ran everything in the Big 8 and whether anyone would admit it or not, they never respected the other members. They were cannon fodder. Same in the SWC with Texas basically running it. Texas A&M and Arkansas had enough clout to complain but in the end, Texas called the shots.

So, the Big 8 contingent had nothing but animosity for Nebraska when the Big 12 marriage occurred (even Oklahoma because the Sooners were in such bad shape in the 1990s). So... they largely sided with Texas on conference matters (and some of them were good such as the prop 48 thing that benefited Nebraska and no one else). The SWC of course failed because Rice, SMU, TCU, and Houston were not really D1A programs at the time (and Arkansas had already bolted). Baylor wasn't either, to be honest, but politics allowed them to tag along.

So, two conferences run by tyrants, joining together naturally wasn't going to build a lasting relationship. Relationships largely succeed long term based upon mutual respect. Did Texas and Oklahoma ever respect what was left of the Big 12? They largely viewed the relationship as one they ultimately financed, and that they kept all the rest afloat. Oh yes, the other 8 were always willing to make concessions to OU and Texas to keep them around. However, does that ultimately lead to mutual respect? If a husband or wife is a groveler, does the other party respect him or her? Of course not.

Now, at least the Big 12 can build something in which all parties ultimately respect one another and play on the same level playing field. This is why the 4 new additions are just fine. People talking about markets and fan attendance are missing the point. The point is that what was left of the Big 12 couldn't do any better than these 4 and these 4 are equal to the remaining 8. Oklahoma State has no more national cache than Houston, UCF, BYU, or Cincinnati.

And going forward here is what I would do. Add Boise State, San Diego State, Colorado State, and Memphis. Create Quads like it's rumored the SEC will do.

West: Boise State, BYU, Colorado State, San Diego State
South: TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston
North: OK State, Kansas State, Kansas, Iowa State
East: Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, West Virginia

Balanced divisions. Rivalries preserved. Clear separation between the Big 12/16 and the group of 5. Effectively they gut the two best group of 5 conferences, the AAC and MWC. No, it does not put them on the same plane as there rest of the power 5 financially, but it is the next best league by far and there is a ton of interest there.

JMO but full disclosure, I have had too much coffee today.

 

[Crimson1967]

The Big East was founded for basketball. Some sponsored football as independents and the rest didn’t have the sport. When life as an independent became unfeasible by the late 1980s, they grabbed Miami and made football a conference sport.

So you had random schools thrown together in an arranged marriage for football. And it caused a rift with the basketball members who saw football driving the bus. Throw in Notre Dame as a non-football member and you have a recipe for disaster.

The football members began to get better offers and started to bail and weaker ones took their place. No big shock when an amicable divorce was arranged to form the AAC.

 

[Crimson1967]

AAC officially adds six schools: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Six weeks after losing three teams to the Big 12 conference, the American Athletic Conference’s response is official. The league announced Thursday the additions of Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB and UTSA, all coming from Conference USA.

theathletic.com

Realignment once again rears its ugly head. The AAC has announced they are adding six new members, all from Conference USA. They are UAB, Charlotte, North Texas, Florida Atlantic, Rice, and Texas-San Antonio. They are scheduled to join in 2023, when Cincinnati, UCF, and Houston head to the BIG XII. This will give the AAC 14 members in all sports. (Navy is football only and Wichita State doesn’t sponsor football).

This drops C-USA to eight members, although there are rumors others may leave as well.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

AAC officially adds six schools: Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB, UTSA

Six weeks after losing three teams to the Big 12 conference, the American Athletic Conference’s response is official. The league announced Thursday the additions of Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB and UTSA, all coming from Conference USA.

theathletic.com

Realignment once again rears its ugly head. The AAC has announced they are adding six new members, all from Conference USA. They are UAB, Charlotte, North Texas, Florida Atlantic, Rice, and Texas-San Antonio. They are scheduled to join in 2023, when Cincinnati, UCF, and Houston head to the BIG XII. This will give the AAC 14 members in all sports. (Navy is football only and Wichita State doesn’t sponsor football).

This drops C-USA to eight members, although there are rumors others may leave as well.

Hard to believe that CUSA let Sun Belt become the better conference but that is what happened. If what I have read it true then CUSA will soon be down to five members.

 

[BamaNation]

Where's the outrage? This is the end of college football as we know it! Somebody will pay!

(Pac12/Big12 Karens : where are you?)

 

[TideEngineer08]

Hard to believe that CUSA let Sun Belt become the better conference but that is what happened. If what I have read it true then CUSA will soon be down to five members.

Are you saying they have teams looking to leave for the Sun Belt?

 

[DzynKingRTR]

Are you saying they have teams looking to leave for the Sun Belt?

I have heard a couple of merger rumors.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

Are you saying they have teams looking to leave for the Sun Belt?

The word on the street is S Miss, Marshall and Old Dominion are looking at Sun Belt.

 

[TideEngineer08]

The word on the street is S Miss, Marshall and Old Dominion are looking at Sun Belt.

I remember when C-USA was created. Charter football members were Houston, Southern Miss, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, and Tulane. This was back in the mid-90s when Southern Miss was referred to as a giant killer. Jeff Bower was their coach at the time. They are the last remaining charter member (again, referring to schools that played football at the time, there were other schools like UAB that played all other sports in the conference).

It's crazy how times change.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

I remember when C-USA was created. Charter football members were Houston, Southern Miss, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, and Tulane. This was back in the mid-90s when Southern Miss was referred to as a giant killer. Jeff Bower was their coach at the time. They are the last remaining charter member (again, referring to schools that played football at the time, there were other schools like UAB that played all other sports in the conference).

It's crazy how times change.

Indeed. I remember when S Miss was a Boise and upsetting 1A (or whatever P5 was back then) on a regular basis. I seem to remember Miss St and Ole Miss stopped playing them at one time because they kept getting embarrassed.

 

[imauafan]

Indeed. I remember when S Miss was a Boise and upsetting 1A (or whatever P5 was back then) on a regular basis. I seem to remember Miss St and Ole Miss stopped playing them at one time because they kept getting embarrassed.

It was D1 back then. They beat Bama and Auburn in the same year (1990?) and they had beaten FSU the same previous year. Their QB was some guy named Favre...