Report:The SEC Is Targeting Ohio State, Clemson, Michigan And Florida State For Expansion

If the SEC adds addtional teams, which are LIKELY choices? (Choose as many as you believe likely)

  • Michigan

    Votes: 4 8.5%
  • Ohio State

    Votes: 4 8.5%
  • Clemson

    Votes: 29 61.7%
  • Florida State

    Votes: 28 59.6%
  • Other Big 12 schools

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Other Big 10/11 schools

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other ACC schools

    Votes: 15 31.9%
  • Pac 12 schools

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • AAC schools

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • CUSA schools

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Independents schools

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Mountain West schools

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sun Belt schools

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No immediate (next 1-3 years) additions

    Votes: 14 29.8%

  • Total voters
    47

BamaNation

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The whole approach here has nothing to do specifically with conference realignment. This has everything to do with land grabs in an era of chaos and dramatic change in the collegiate landscape. NIL, no-penalty transfers, big $$$ media, "personal brands", 1-and-done, get-it-while-its-hot, etc. In this scenario, we're not worried about geography (we're flying to places a few hours drive away, for pete's sake).

Rather, we're looking at what is the best collection of teams reaching the most eyeballs, attracting the best players, and competing in the best arenas at the highest levels (with a slight nod toward academically excellent institutions). Forget everything you've ever known about the Southeastern Conference. It might still be called the SEC but it's really going toward the FEC - Football Elites Conference - and who can help solidify that.

It's gonna happen whether the SEC participates in the land grab or not. So, why shouldn't the best conference get it's choice picks before the wannabe's get theirs? The move toward a 50 or 60 team league has begun. How we get there will be a messy, frustrating, nonsensical, litigated process. Frustration especially for the purists amongst us (and I'm probably closer to that perspective than the free-wheeling perspective going on now). To be sure, I'm not sure that there's some grand scheme happening here. It's more like game theory.

At the end we'll be there and looking at it from the inside rather than the 75 schools / 5-7 conferences on the outside. And that's why this is happening and makes sense.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Am I missing something?
What cannot be disputed is Delaney left the Big Ten in better shape than he found it. He ran the conference for 31 years, and all they did was make money. Delaney's biggest problem - as well as his biggest asset - is he's a lawyer, and while I don't mean to offend the many lawyers on this site, I don't even think (most of the time) that Delaney said a whole lot wrong in terms of advocating for his client and employer, the Big Ten. If he had been awful at his job, he wouldn't have been there for 31 years.

Delaney's over-the-top nonsense was making comments basically saying he didn't respect Alabama's 2011 national championship because we didn't win the conference. It was a colossally stupid thing to say, and let's face it: he didn't get what he wanted with the playoff, and it actually turned out good for the Big Ten in 2016.

Here's the difference in Delaney and Warren.

Warren is the kind of guy who wants to sit there reading the internet about how "woke" and how "progressive" he is. When that tape came out with him basically saying he was scuttling the Big Ten season because of his desires in the Presidential election, he should have been canned ON THE SPOT for letting his personal feelings intrude on whether something was sound business or not.

If Delaney had been running the Big Ten, a couple of things here:

1) He wouldn't have created that embarrassment of changing the rules for Ohio State to get into the playoff.

Delaney would have had enough sense to look ahead and say, "Hey, look, this is an unpredictable virus, and what if we wind up with the best team being one game short of this arbitrary standard?" He would have anticipated that BEFORE it happened.

2) Let's consider Texas and Oklahoma for a moment.

Does anyone actually believe that UT and OU want to deal with a demonstrable incompetent like Warren??? I'm the kind of guy who can believe that Texas called Warren and said, "Hey, we'd like to jump conferences, what do you think of Texas coming to the Big Ten and bringing Oklahoma with us?" I can actually see Warren being dumb enough to muse to himself, "Yeah, that was the last all-white national champions, and I don't want to have anything to do with them."

Delaney? Well, he wouldn't have done that for sure.

I can think of 5-7 scenarios if Jim Delaney was running the Big Ten right now that this whole thing wouldn't have happened the way it did.

a) he would have told the two schools, "Tell me what kind of deal they're offering and give us a chance to make a counter offer"

b) he would have said, "You know, we'd love to have you in the Big Ten. Do you want to consider coming here?" And then listed all their assets of large audiences, etc.

c) he would have had the brains to have had TWO gophers vested with his authority. The first gopher would have been the liaison for the Big 12 talks.

d) the second liaison would have contacted Clemson, USC, Florida State, and someone else as a counter-weight to the possibility of watching UT and OU go to the SEC. (And for those of you saying "but AAU," well, principle over principles (e.g. money over conviction)

e) Delaney then would probably have done one of two things, either gotten enough teams to at least be able to soften the blow (and steal some of the media spotlight) OR he would have leaked the story before anyone wanted it out through an underling.

I'm not trying to make the guy sound like the Machiavelli of conference leaders, but the fact is that Kevin Warren is in over his head while Delaney would have at least given them a puncher's chance.

3) he would have TRIED to find a way for a consensus vote to play the Covid season.

And he would have attempted to announce his plan first.
 

81usaf92

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Initially I felt the same way. But upon further reflection, it seems this may all be a front for replacing the ncaa. Everyone is hung up on Ohio State/Michigan to the SEC and how outlandish that is. And it is on the surface. But if the end game is simply the SEC as an entity replacing the ncaa, not a whole lot necessarily changes with regards to the on the field and who plays who and all of that.

We could end up with a totally new organization with 50 teams or so and it's divided up within that new group of teams to make geographic and historical sense. Or, maybe 2 new organizations of 24 teams a piece, again, divided up in divisions based upon natural rivals.

Just a thought. But if we're really talking about just bringing in Ohio State, Michigan, Clemson, and Florida State just because we can, then it is a ridiculous notion, IMO.
It always seems that we constantly hear “ if this happens then it will be the last day I am a college football fan”. But yet we still see 90% of the posters who say that after that line is crossed.
 
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4Q Basket Case

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What cannot be disputed is Delaney left the Big Ten in better shape than he found it. He ran the conference for 31 years, and all they did was make money. Delaney's biggest problem - as well as his biggest asset - is he's a lawyer, and while I don't mean to offend the many lawyers on this site, I don't even think (most of the time) that Delaney said a whole lot wrong in terms of advocating for his client and employer, the Big Ten. If he had been awful at his job, he wouldn't have been there for 31 years.

Delaney's over-the-top nonsense was making comments basically saying he didn't respect Alabama's 2011 national championship because we didn't win the conference. It was a colossally stupid thing to say, and let's face it: he didn't get what he wanted with the playoff, and it actually turned out good for the Big Ten in 2016.

Here's the difference in Delaney and Warren.

Warren is the kind of guy who wants to sit there reading the internet about how "woke" and how "progressive" he is. When that tape came out with him basically saying he was scuttling the Big Ten season because of his desires in the Presidential election, he should have been canned ON THE SPOT for letting his personal feelings intrude on whether something was sound business or not.

If Delaney had been running the Big Ten, a couple of things here:

1) He wouldn't have created that embarrassment of changing the rules for Ohio State to get into the playoff.

Delaney would have had enough sense to look ahead and say, "Hey, look, this is an unpredictable virus, and what if we wind up with the best team being one game short of this arbitrary standard?" He would have anticipated that BEFORE it happened.

2) Let's consider Texas and Oklahoma for a moment.

Does anyone actually believe that UT and OU want to deal with a demonstrable incompetent like Warren??? I'm the kind of guy who can believe that Texas called Warren and said, "Hey, we'd like to jump conferences, what do you think of Texas coming to the Big Ten and bringing Oklahoma with us?" I can actually see Warren being dumb enough to muse to himself, "Yeah, that was the last all-white national champions, and I don't want to have anything to do with them."

Delaney? Well, he wouldn't have done that for sure.

I can think of 5-7 scenarios if Jim Delaney was running the Big Ten right now that this whole thing wouldn't have happened the way it did.

a) he would have told the two schools, "Tell me what kind of deal they're offering and give us a chance to make a counter offer"

b) he would have said, "You know, we'd love to have you in the Big Ten. Do you want to consider coming here?" And then listed all their assets of large audiences, etc.

c) he would have had the brains to have had TWO gophers vested with his authority. The first gopher would have been the liaison for the Big 12 talks.

d) the second liaison would have contacted Clemson, USC, Florida State, and someone else as a counter-weight to the possibility of watching UT and OU go to the SEC. (And for those of you saying "but AAU," well, principle over principles (e.g. money over conviction)

e) Delaney then would probably have done one of two things, either gotten enough teams to at least be able to soften the blow (and steal some of the media spotlight) OR he would have leaked the story before anyone wanted it out through an underling.

I'm not trying to make the guy sound like the Machiavelli of conference leaders, but the fact is that Kevin Warren is in over his head while Delaney would have at least given them a puncher's chance.

3) he would have TRIED to find a way for a consensus vote to play the Covid season.

And he would have attempted to announce his plan first.
I agree on your assessment of both Delaney and Warren. But the question was not about Delaney’s competence. Rather, it was about the chances of success if he had sued to block OU and UTw from the SEC.

You’re saying he would have tried other means to get OU and UTw into the Big 10, and I agree on that as well.
 

TideEngineer08

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My latest thoughts on this are that Ohio State and Michigan aren't leaving the Big Ten. Their roots are too deep and it's not like they aren't printing money already.

I think where this goes from here is that the SEC is going to raid the ACC, which is the most vulnerable conference other than the PAC 12. I think initially we take Clemson and Florida State. The ACC is destabilized at this point and all hell breaks loose. After this I think we make a play for North Carolina and Virginia. I think... hope is more like it... that the Big Ten is caught so flat footed due to their lack of leadership that they aren't able to counter. Because I think the decision makers at UNC and Virginia would prefer the Big Ten.

From there, I think the Big Ten either has fired Warren or he really does get woke and they start making a play for what remains. Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Duke are all AAU schools. Then there is the prospect of saying to hell with geography and them going after the best of the Pac 12. Which is likely to happen.

Finally, the white whale. What does Notre Dame do? Because the ACC is going to disappear as a holding place for their non-football sports. This is a black swan event that will force them to finally join a league fully. Because neither the new Big Ten, nor the new SEC is going to allow an almost married scenario that they've enjoyed with the ACC. They will have to join fully. Which do they choose?

I suspect it will be the new Big Ten. All of their historical rivals, USC, Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State, Stanford, will be members of this new Big Ten. With the Big Ten now stretching from coast to coast, it allows them to continue to travel nationally in football and be a national brand. So who, in the end, wins this war between the Big Ten and SEC? It's difficult to say really. If that scenario is correct and the Big Ten ends up with Notre Dame and USC, it would be hard to argue they didn't win. Yet, in the end, I think the SEC commands more viewership and thus more money.
 
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Ole Man Dan

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While I understand Michigan and Ohio State could again boost the SEC brand, you do realize they are not located in the Southeast correct? Do you have any idea how many episodes of "It's a Southern Thing" they would have to watch to even scratch the surface of what the SEC is all about? In my eyes Missouri is not the SEC and never will be, but i'm old and remember back in the day when it was truly teams located in the Southeast.

This is just another round of musical chairs to get more money. In 10 years we will rack 'em up and do it all again when TV contracts are getting close to expiring. Musical chairs for money is the new norm, but for God sakes, can we at least stick with teams located in the Southeastern region of the country?
Plans call for the SEC to be called the SEC.
The name South Eastern Conference will likely be dropped.
 

BamaNation

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My latest thoughts on this are that Ohio State and Michigan aren't leaving the Big Ten. Their roots are too deep and it's not like they aren't printing money already.
I believe they would rather, for some insane reason, play in the Rose Bowl than be a part of a new SEC dominated / organized entity - even to their own demise.
 

81usaf92

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I believe they would rather, for some insane reason, play in the Rose Bowl than be a part of a new SEC dominated / organized entity - even to their own demise.
Ive met several Michigan fans over the years and all they talk about is The Game and the Rose Bowl. Out of the B1G and PAC 12 I think really only Ohio St, USC, and Oregon really think about National Championships on a consistent basis.
 

BamaInBham

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My latest thoughts on this are that Ohio State and Michigan aren't leaving the Big Ten. Their roots are too deep and it's not like they aren't printing money already.

I think where this goes from here is that the SEC is going to raid the ACC, which is the most vulnerable conference other than the PAC 12. I think initially we take Clemson and Florida State. The ACC is destabilized at this point and all hell breaks loose. After this I think we make a play for North Carolina and Virginia. I think... hope is more like it... that the Big Ten is caught so flat footed due to their lack of leadership that they aren't able to counter. Because I think the decision makers at UNC and Virginia would prefer the Big Ten.

From there, I think the Big Ten either has fired Warren or he really does get woke and they start making a play for what remains. Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Duke are all AAU schools. Then there is the prospect of saying to hell with geography and them going after the best of the Pac 12. Which is likely to happen.

Finally, the white whale. What does Notre Dame do? Because the ACC is going to disappear as a holding place for their non-football sports. This is a black swan event that will force them to finally join a league fully. Because neither the new Big Ten, nor the new SEC is going to allow an almost married scenario that they've enjoyed with the ACC. They will have to join fully. Which do they choose?

I suspect it will be the new Big Ten. All of their historical rivals, USC, Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State, Stanford, will be members of this new Big Ten. With the Big Ten now stretching from coast to coast, it allows them to continue to travel nationally in football and be a national brand. So who, in the end, wins this war between the Big Ten and SEC? It's difficult to say really. If that scenario is correct and the Big Ten ends up with Notre Dame and USC, it would be hard to argue they didn't win. Yet, in the end, I think the SEC commands more viewership and thus more money.
Agree with most of what you have said. Disagree that even if the Big10 gets USC and ND that they will have won. ND has hung in pretty well but even so, they do not presently pose a serious threat to winning a NC. Things can change but as they currently stand, IMO, the Big10 would have only OSU with a good shot to win a NC, ND close to having an outside shot, USC, Mich with the potential to reenter the NC sweepstakes but not there today. The SEC would have Alabama, UGA, LSU and OU able to win a NC today, and with UF, UTx, A&M and AU with the potential to enter the NC sweepstakes. And if Clemson was added they are able today, with FSU maybe able to reenter the picture.

In summary, even if the Big10 makes the additions you suggest, though they would close the gap some, the SEC is already more powerful by a large margin with the potential to increase that lead with Clemson and FSU.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Ive met several Michigan fans over the years and all they talk about is The Game and the Rose Bowl. Out of the B1G and PAC 12 I think really only Ohio St, USC, and Oregon really think about National Championships on a consistent basis.
Respectfully, you're wrong about Oregon.

I talk to my Eugene buddy at least 2-3 times a week, and this subject comes up time and again. The Oregon Ducks fanbase (I'm obviously excluding Knight) is still caught up in "going to the Rose Bowl and winning it" like we're still in the 60s back when they had that long period of time they weren't even close.

The Ducks fans would rather beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl than have won the Auburn game. I'm. Serious.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I agree on your assessment of both Delaney and Warren. But the question was not about Delaney’s competence. Rather, it was about the chances of success if he had sued to block OU and UTw from the SEC.

You’re saying he would have tried other means to get OU and UTw into the Big 10, and I agree on that as well.
I don't think he would be that dumb (unless he could persuade someone it was anti-trust), but I've been wrong before.
 

81usaf92

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Respectfully, you're wrong about Oregon.

I talk to my Eugene buddy at least 2-3 times a week, and this subject comes up time and again. The Oregon Ducks fanbase (I'm obviously excluding Knight) is still caught up in "going to the Rose Bowl and winning it" like we're still in the 60s back when they had that long period of time they weren't even close.

The Ducks fans would rather beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl than have won the Auburn game. I'm. Serious.
As a program they care. As a fan base they don’t. Their fan base can’t fill up 25% of Rose Bowl but the program as a whole is geared to be a national power.

My point is there are just a few programs in the B1G and PAC 12 that care about anybody but the Rose bowl.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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As a program they care. As a fan base they don’t. Their fan base can’t fill up 25% of Rose Bowl but the program as a whole is geared to be a national power.

My point is there are just a few programs in the B1G and PAC 12 that care about anybody but the Rose bowl.
Yeah, the thing with a lot of them - and I'm serious - is they actually believe "the winner of the Rose Bowl is the national champion."

You know, like i did when I was nine.
 
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KrAzY3

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I think initially we take Clemson and Florida State. The ACC is destabilized at this point and all hell breaks loose. After this I think we make a play for North Carolina and Virginia.
If you're thinking mega conference, and you can actually land North Carolina and Virginia I can see the logic to this move. However, if the SEC adds Clemson and FSU but then misses on any combination of North Carolina, Virginia, and Notre Dame, then the move could backfire. The Big 10 won't want Clemson (not a member of AAU, not a big state, not contiguous with Big 10 states). If the SEC does pick them apart, I'd prefer getting programs the Big 10 wants ASAP.

May be if the SEC does make a move they can go about it like the proposed Pac-12 deal way back when, where they had a package of teams joining and the move would have been so big that the Big 12 would have ceased to exist after it was all said and done.

The other thing that I was thinking about is the fact that somehow these schools have a tendency to find a landing spot in power conferences. So we can talk about the ACC getting raided, but I'm guessing right now they have Big 12 teams calling them. It could make them harder to finish off. The ACC and Big 12 were both vulnerable last time and ended up adding enough teams to prop themselves up.

Of the entire Big East, only 3 program didn't end up finding a landing spot. Uconn, which barely had a football program (they didn't even play football last year), South Florida, and Cincy. The latter two having joined after Miami and VT left the conference. So, I'll be keeping an eye on where the Big 12 teams scatter because it could make killing the ACC a lot harder.
 
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BamaInBham

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If you're thinking mega conference, and you can actually land North Carolina and Virginia I can see the logic to this move. However, if the SEC adds Clemson and FSU but then misses on any combination of North Carolina, Virginia, and Notre Dame, then the move could backfire. The Big 10 won't want Clemson (not a member of AAU, not a big state, not contiguous with Big 10 states). If the SEC does pick them apart, I'd prefer getting programs the Big 10 wants ASAP.

May be if the SEC does make a move they can go about it like the proposed Pac-12 deal way back when, where they had a package of teams joining and the move would have been so big that the Big 12 would have ceased to exist after it was all said and done.

The other thing that I was thinking about is the fact that somehow these schools have a tendency to find a landing spot in power conferences. So we can talk about the ACC getting raided, but I'm guessing right now they have Big 12 teams calling them. It could make them harder to finish off. The ACC and Big 12 were both vulnerable last time and ended up adding enough teams to prop themselves up.

Of the entire Big East, only 3 program didn't end up finding a landing spot. Uconn, which barely had a football program (they didn't even play football last year), South Florida, and Cincy. The latter two having joined after Miami and VT left the conference. So, I'll be keeping an eye on where the Big 12 teams scatter because it could make killing the ACC a lot harder.
Clemson is an AAU member.