Report: Top Southern Baptists stonewalled sex abuse victims - AJC

92tide

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and all of that noise recently about "groomers"

fortunately, my southern baptist indoctrination didn't take

 

NationalTitles18

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and all of that noise recently about "groomers"

fortunately, my southern baptist indoctrination didn't take

Nothing but a hit piece. Litton plagiarized sermons and that's far worse than allowing abusers to run around unfettered in order to protect your reputation! Litton also wants the SBC to admit it's racist past (and present), which is nothing but CRT. He's a traitor to the white race SBC. (synthesized from real exerts of responses by an actual SB to past articles critical of SBC leadership. white race was my implied interpretation to a portion of the responses and not overtly stated)
 

Crimson1967

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Nothing but a hit piece. Litton plagiarized sermons and that's far worse than allowing abusers to run around unfettered in order to protect your reputation! Litton also wants the SBC to admit it's racist past (and present), which is nothing but CRT. He's a traitor to the white race SBC. (synthesized from real exerts of responses by an actual SB to past articles critical of SBC leadership. white race was my implied interpretation to a portion of the responses and not overtly stated)
You forgot to mention this is the fault of the women who seduced these upright men of God and led them astray. Pray that those sinful tramps can break free from Satan.
 

4Q Basket Case

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I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you !!! SHOCKED!!!!

Seriously: My experience is that, whatever a religion opposes most vigorously in public, it practices to excess in private.

Applies to Catholic, the various Protestant denominations, Islam…whatever.
 

TIDE-HSV

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As a former SBC pastor I knew this was going on...but never guessed the level. The structure of the SBC made it convenient to say that this was not controllable...but it was and should have been. This is what you get when you worship "preachers' and not our Lord.
It happens in the UMC also. I know of one pastor who was "rehabilitated," after the complaints piled up against him by being transferred to a NC conference for close to ten years and then was allowed to transfer back and retire here in the North Alabama Conference. I personally know two of his female victims, one a parishioner and one a staff member...
 

TIDE-HSV

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every religion, doesn't matter which when you become an insular group that cannot afford to be seen as not right in all things stuff happens and it gets covered up. It's a part of it
TBF, I would have expected it more in denominations like the UMC and Catholics, which are tightly centrally controlled than in the SBC, which is congregational almost to the point of being fractured...
 

crimsonaudio

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every group of humans, doesn't matter which when you become an insular group that cannot afford to be seen as not right in all things stuff happens and it gets covered up. It's a part of it
FIFY

It's most obvious in religious groups, in large part because of the dichotomy it highlights, but in reality any group that rises above being seen as 'not right' falls prey to this.
 
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Jon

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FIFY

It's most obvious in religious groups, in large part because of the dichotomy it highlights, but in reality any group that rises above being seen as 'not right' falls prey to this.
completely agree that this can and does happen in all large groups. I'd argue it is far more prevalent in religious groups as the pressure to be seen as divinely correct in all things makes for a dynamic where no failing can be admitted too. But you are correct wherever humans are in a position of power they will justify anything being shoved under the rug rather than upset their own power
 

mdb-tpet

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FIFY

It's most obvious in religious groups, in large part because of the dichotomy it highlights, but in reality any group that rises above being seen as 'not right' falls prey to this.
I wonder if the rate of sex crimes are any different from the population for those accused, or if these crimes are increased as a result of the repression in their religious system. But certainly the protection of the criminals and the denigration of abused is beyond heinous. These actions just show me the human race is not yet fully cooked.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I wonder if the rate of sex crimes are any different from the population for those accused, or if these crimes are increased as a result of the repression in their religious system. But certainly the protection of the criminals and the denigration of abused is beyond heinous. These actions just show me the human race is not yet fully cooked.
I think the sociopaths who commit the crimes work themselves into positions where they can groom their selected victims. If it's boys, then scoutmaster is perfect. If it's youth, then youth pastor fits. If it's young women, then pastor/counselor is good. One class not mentioned as much is medical. I've known several serial offenders. What's always amazed me is the ob/gyns who get into it. You'd think having to look at it all day long would get boring, but that's not the case...
 

CrimsonNagus

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I think the sociopaths who commit the crimes work themselves into positions where they can groom their selected victims. If it's boys, then scoutmaster is perfect. If it's youth, then youth pastor fits. If it's young women, then pastor/counselor is good. One class not mentioned as much is medical. I've known several serial offenders. What's always amazed me is the ob/gyns who get into it. You'd think having to look at it all day long would get boring, but that's not the case...
My wife's ob always has a female nurse in the room during exams to help prevent this very thing. It protects both the patient and the doctor. I'm surprised it is not common practice or even required by law.
 

TIDE-HSV

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My wife's ob always has a female nurse in the room during exams to help prevent this very thing. It protects both the patient and the doctor. I'm surprised it is not common practice or even required by law.
Most do it now. It didn't used to be standard practice and it's not required by law. It's mostly for the doctor, rather than the patient...
 

selmaborntidefan

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As one raised in an SBC church(es), sadly, not a surprise.

Earle is correct, though, in the sense that I HAVE been in Baptist churches where it was exposed and confronted in the way it SHOULD be. My dad was a deacon in one - and after that initial shock (and it's still always a shock) - they sought both legal counsel for protection and followed the best they could.

Just note this - as a reminder, I AM a seminary grad (if not a very good one). And we discussed things that were very uncomfortable, all of them rooted in events that had actually happened - there was even a "how do you handle this" test.

One of my profs stated very clearly - it was one of the clearest lines in the sand drawn during my time in seminary academia. And you have to understand that the SEMINARY (if it's a good one) is what college used to be at one time. YES, you have agreed to a very minimal set of priors (in our case, I'm sure that list is quite long at some place like Liberty), but you are expected (particularly as an academic, which I was) to grapple with the text and seeming contradictions and "this in the OT, this in the NT" and those kinds of subjects. Forgiveness, redemption, etc.

One of my profs said it clearly as possible. We as Christians are to forgive, absolutely. We are to restore when possible. "But there's one exception: you can forgive the known pedophile, but he doesn't need to be in your church. And spare me the redemption part, I've not seen it happen. Ever." I will admit that was a bit jarring but also refreshing and based on what I've seen since that day in 2009, quite obviously correct.

"We'll forgive what you did. It doesn't mean we won't prosecute you. And it doesn't mean we will ever let you around our kids ever again, either."

I'd say it's sad in the sense of seeing the church do that. Unfortunately, there is a rigidity in the SBC that functions ostrich-like among what appeared to my simple mind to be the vast majority of people. They're absolutely certain of the six-day Creation account (for example) because if that was wrong then Jesus shouldn't have appealed to it. None of these folks ever seems to know that the idea of an OLD EARTH was the majority view AMONG CHRISTIANS long before Darwin was ever even born. Granted, they didn't go into things like carbon dating, etc, because those didn't exist at that time - but that the vast majority of Bible commentators thought the earth was MUCH OLDER than 6,000 years is both true and a shock to so many people.

And I've found when you point that out - they just get mad at you rather than accepting the challenge to their worldview. It doesn't mean the Resurrection didn't happen; it just means you're assuming a fundamentalism that is based solely on your assumption. Calvinism is another bogeyman in the SBC. Whether you agree with that position or not (and most mis-state it just like most mis-state Arminianism), does anyone with a brain think "but 1 John 2:2 says the whole world" was never addressed by any Calvinist in history? Whether you agree with it or not, it's pretty arrogant to be a layperson and go with, "But mah bobble says rot hare....."

And what I see here is that same arrogance spills over into this.


Sadly, I find myself in agreement with what the most cynical non-Christian would say: "And when you look at when it was covered up and when it wasn't, you're going to find that the BIGGEST DONORS TO THE CHURCH were the ones that got covered up."

I mean, more often than not that's exactly right.

One more post on another thread and I've got to head into work. 15 work days left here.
 

TIDE-HSV

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As one raised in an SBC church(es), sadly, not a surprise.

Earle is correct, though, in the sense that I HAVE been in Baptist churches where it was exposed and confronted in the way it SHOULD be. My dad was a deacon in one - and after that initial shock (and it's still always a shock) - they sought both legal counsel for protection and followed the best they could.

Just note this - as a reminder, I AM a seminary grad (if not a very good one). And we discussed things that were very uncomfortable, all of them rooted in events that had actually happened - there was even a "how do you handle this" test.

One of my profs stated very clearly - it was one of the clearest lines in the sand drawn during my time in seminary academia. And you have to understand that the SEMINARY (if it's a good one) is what college used to be at one time. YES, you have agreed to a very minimal set of priors (in our case, I'm sure that list is quite long at some place like Liberty), but you are expected (particularly as an academic, which I was) to grapple with the text and seeming contradictions and "this in the OT, this in the NT" and those kinds of subjects. Forgiveness, redemption, etc.

One of my profs said it clearly as possible. We as Christians are to forgive, absolutely. We are to restore when possible. "But there's one exception: you can forgive the known pedophile, but he doesn't need to be in your church. And spare me the redemption part, I've not seen it happen. Ever." I will admit that was a bit jarring but also refreshing and based on what I've seen since that day in 2009, quite obviously correct.

"We'll forgive what you did. It doesn't mean we won't prosecute you. And it doesn't mean we will ever let you around our kids ever again, either."

I'd say it's sad in the sense of seeing the church do that. Unfortunately, there is a rigidity in the SBC that functions ostrich-like among what appeared to my simple mind to be the vast majority of people. They're absolutely certain of the six-day Creation account (for example) because if that was wrong then Jesus shouldn't have appealed to it. None of these folks ever seems to know that the idea of an OLD EARTH was the majority view AMONG CHRISTIANS long before Darwin was ever even born. Granted, they didn't go into things like carbon dating, etc, because those didn't exist at that time - but that the vast majority of Bible commentators thought the earth was MUCH OLDER than 6,000 years is both true and a shock to so many people.

And I've found when you point that out - they just get mad at you rather than accepting the challenge to their worldview. It doesn't mean the Resurrection didn't happen; it just means you're assuming a fundamentalism that is based solely on your assumption. Calvinism is another bogeyman in the SBC. Whether you agree with that position or not (and most mis-state it just like most mis-state Arminianism), does anyone with a brain think "but 1 John 2:2 says the whole world" was never addressed by any Calvinist in history? Whether you agree with it or not, it's pretty arrogant to be a layperson and go with, "But mah bobble says rot hare....."

And what I see here is that same arrogance spills over into this.


Sadly, I find myself in agreement with what the most cynical non-Christian would say: "And when you look at when it was covered up and when it wasn't, you're going to find that the BIGGEST DONORS TO THE CHURCH were the ones that got covered up."

I mean, more often than not that's exactly right.

One more post on another thread and I've got to head into work. 15 work days left here.
The most notorious case I know of here - and it didn't involve kids - involved a large, prosperous SBC here. The minister was having an affair with either the choir director or organist; I forget which. When confronted, he more or less told the deacons he was entitled to it, pointing to how well the church was doing. They fired him. He left town for a while, a few years IIRC, then came back and founded a nondenominational church. This all came to me from another staff member, so it's not firsthand knowledge. Even though it didn't involve kids, I don't question that when it's between boss and an employee, it's never consensual...
 

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