Republican-Conservative Catch All Thread

jthomas666

Hall of Fame
Aug 14, 2002
19,256
2,277
173
Birmingham & Atlanta
Earl you do realize that it was in large part the black voters in Alabama who put GW back in office for the final time? As a Grad student in the political science department at UA during his last election I used to review the results of the Capstone poll as it built up during the campaign and was simply stunned by that fact. Given that knowledge, it is no surprise to me that people who are repulsed by Trump personally choose to hold their nose and vote for him because of what he isn't--a socialist ready to open our borders and give everything to everyone to buy power.
1. The two elections you cite simply prove that PT Barnum was right. 2. Even assuming that your characterization of Trump supporters is right, what does it say about them that they continue to support Trump knowing that he is ready to give everything to Russia to buy and maintain power?
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
69,695
7,941
423
Huntsville, AL,USA
Earl you do realize that it was in large part the black voters in Alabama who put GW back in office for the final time? As a Grad student in the political science department at UA during his last election I used to review the results of the Capstone poll as it built up during the campaign and was simply stunned by that fact. Given that knowledge, it is no surprise to me that people who are repulsed by Trump personally choose to hold their nose and vote for him because of what he isn't--a socialist ready to open our borders and give everything to everyone to buy power.
Certainly I know that. OTOH, I have nothing but pity for people who believe that all who oppose him and his wannabe despotism want open borders and giving away for power. That's how he got into office, that and Russian money...
 

81usaf92

Hall of Fame
Apr 26, 2008
15,110
3,922
178
South Alabama
Earl you do realize that it was in large part the black voters in Alabama who put GW back in office for the final time? As a Grad student in the political science department at UA during his last election I used to review the results of the Capstone poll as it built up during the campaign and was simply stunned by that fact. Given that knowledge, it is no surprise to me that people who are repulsed by Trump personally choose to hold their nose and vote for him because of what he isn't--a socialist ready to open our borders and give everything to everyone to buy power.
I don’t have much of an issue with a silent Tory voter holding there nose and hoping for the best in an election of unpopular candidates, but I do have a problem with someone that is strongly in support of a person that openly threatens the country’s institutions and treats every criticism based on empirical facts on said candidate as a crime against the State.

At this point you are either a Trump supporter or your not. I think the middle ground will grow or disappear based on the candidate the Democratic Party elects. At this point the most important person in the USA is Ruth Bader Ginsberg, and I don’t think she has another 5 in her so the Democrats really need to stop squabbling and get behind someone fast because if he puts another 2 far right theocratic frat boys in the SCOTUS then i question how many democratic institutions will survive the next 10-20 years.
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
17,691
2,114
173
Hooterville, Vir.
Here is an alternative conservative view, one man about whom I would hope most, at worst, would say, "I do not agree with his view, but it is not crazy or despotic." George Will recently published a book called, The Conservative Sensibility.
Interview with George Will.
The "Play" button to the left takes you to the subscription page.Click on the headphones to the right to just listen to the interview.

There are some issues on which I disagree with Will (he welcomes incorporation, while I find it a constitutional abomination without supporting evidence from the XIV proposal/ratification period), but in other areas his argument is well-reasoned and supported by some evidence.

He postulates three thoughts on which the conservative sensibility is predicated:
* Rights precede government. Governments exist to secure rights.
* There is a fixed human nature. We are not creatures that acquire whatever nature we are surrounded by. Once you deny this, as the great Progressives did, you emancipate governments for the most dangerous of its twentieth century projects to modify human beings, the "New German Man," or homo sovieticus.
* Because of the first two, we need a government that is checked and balanced, so that it is effective but slow and modified, because men are passionate and passions are problems. We want majority rule, but slowed down.

The discussion covers Randy Barnett, Alexander Bickel (The Least Dangerous Branch), Michael Oakeshott, Timothy Sandefur, Herbert Croly's seminal Progressive manifesto, The Promise of American Life (1909)

Side notes.
Will is an atheist (did not know that)
Will is an anti-Trump conservative (I did know that).

I thought some might find this interesting.


Anyway, this is a conversation with a conservative who dissents from Trump.
Conservatism existed before Trump and it will exist once Trump is gone from the scene.
When asked to define the position of one's opponents, human nature (in order to justify one's own position by comparison) is to cast them in the most extreme light, in ways to which those opponents would probably object. Here is a conservative's definition of conservatism.
 
Last edited:

Go Bama

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
7,961
2,189
173
Thirteenessee
Here is an alternative conservative view, one man about whom I would hope most would say, "I do not agree with his view, but it is not crazy or despotic." George Will recently published a book called, The Conservative Sensibility.
Interview with George Will.
The "Play" button to the left takes you to the subscription page.Click on the headphones to the right to listen.

There are some issues on which I disagree with Will (he welcomes incorporation, while I find it a constitutional abomination without supporting evidence from the XIV proposal/ratification period), but in other areas his argument is well-reasoned and supported by some evidence.

He postulates three thoughts on which the conservative sensibility is predicated:
* Rights precede government. Governments exist to secure rights.
* There is a fixed human nature. We are not creatures that acquire whatever nature we are surrounded by. Once you deny this, as the great Progressives did, you emancipate governments for the most dangerous of its twentieth century projects to modify human beings, the "New German Man," or homo sovieticus.
* Because of the first two, we need a government that is checked and balanced, so that it is effective but slow and modified, because men are passionate and passions are problems. We want majority rule, but slowed down.

The discussion covers Randy Barnett, Alexander Bickel (The Least Dangerous Branch), Michael Oakeshott, Timothy Sandefur, Herbert Croly's seminal Progressive manifesto, The Promise of American Life (1909)

Side notes.
Will is an atheist (did not know that)
Will is an anti-Trump conservative (I did know that).

I thought some might find this interesting.


Anyway, this is a conversation with a conservative who dissents from Trump.
Conservatism existed before Trump and it will exist once Trump is gone from the scene.
When asked to define the position of one's opponents, human nature (in order to justify one's own position by comparison) is to cast them in the most extreme light, in ways to which those opponents would probably object. Here is a conversative's definition of conservatism.
I couldn’t listen to that guy, it didn’t sound like Will, so I bought the book. I found it interesting that the hardcover was cheaper than the Kindle edition.
 

selmaborntidefan

Hall of Fame
Mar 31, 2000
21,843
2,157
273
50
Wishing I was somewhere close to Duluth with a sli
Earl you do realize that it was in large part the black voters in Alabama who put GW back in office for the final time? As a Grad student in the political science department at UA during his last election I used to review the results of the Capstone poll as it built up during the campaign and was simply stunned by that fact. Given that knowledge, it is no surprise to me that people who are repulsed by Trump personally choose to hold their nose and vote for him because of what he isn't--a socialist ready to open our borders and give everything to everyone to buy power.
Wasn't this AFTER Wallace had spent the better part of four years apologizing for his previous rhetoric?

I mean, in 1982 when he ran, the world was quite different. At that time the South was only "Republican" at the Presidential level. The governors at that time in the South were still mostly Democrats albeit not what that party is now. And one could argue that blacks felt more threatened by the guy in the White House - a Republican named Reagan - than by a Democrat named Wallace who had at least been one of the few to actually admit to being wrong.


My mother never went to school with any blacks (she graduated class of 1965 and then went to an all-girls, all-white college). But she also didn't like Wallace from the moment she saw him in front of the schoolhouse door, viewing him as little more than a self-interested con artist. To this day she'll tell me how much she always hated the guy, and she's by no means either a segregationist nor a hard liberal on integration.


(Note: one wish is that I could go back and ask my grand pappy - the yellow dog Democrat that he was - if he voted for or supported Wallace ever. I know he despised Jimmy Carter from next door and then voted for him twice for President).
 

selmaborntidefan

Hall of Fame
Mar 31, 2000
21,843
2,157
273
50
Wishing I was somewhere close to Duluth with a sli
I don’t have much of an issue with a silent Tory voter holding there nose and hoping for the best in an election of unpopular candidates, but I do have a problem with someone that is strongly in support of a person that openly threatens the country’s institutions and treats every criticism based on empirical facts on said candidate as a crime against the State.

At this point you are either a Trump supporter or your not. I think the middle ground will grow or disappear based on the candidate the Democratic Party elects. At this point the most important person in the USA is Ruth Bader Ginsberg, and I don’t think she has another 5 in her so the Democrats really need to stop squabbling and get behind someone fast because if he puts another 2 far right theocratic frat boys in the SCOTUS then i question how many democratic institutions will survive the next 10-20 years.

This is pretty much my view.


I at least get the whole "SCOTUS is in the balance, don't know about Trump, fear what Hillary might do" folks. But I'd also note that train left the station long ago, and his utter childishness about everything would be a problem even if he didn't think he was elected in a Saddam Hussein-type of election.

What's funny is that it's no secret here that I despise both of the Clintons. In my view, Trump is the combination of all the worst qualities of those two and on steroids. It amuses me......wrong verb.....it SOMETHING me how many of Trump's voters despite both Clintons (as I do) for the same reasons I do........but then turn right around and love Trump, who is 100 times worse of the very characteristics they say they oppose.
 

Latest threads

TideFansStore.com - Wear UA Masks!

Purchases made through our TideFansStore.com link may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.