Rioting at Charlottsville Va (UVA) by white nationalists and counter protesters

[TIDE-HSV]

it had nothing to do with Charlottesville but this thread is basically discussing racism and I didn't want to start a new thread

and your response previous to this one makes no sense to me. I was making a point about how racism is still very prevalent today, because it is

And my point remains that it's not as bad as it was, by any means. I've seen a lot more years of life in this country than you have...

 

[seebell]

Racism is alive and well but it's not as bad as it used to be.

 

[Bamaro]

And my point remains that it's not as bad as it was, by any means. I've seen a lot more years of life in this country than you have...

Yes, what we call racism today was fairly mainstream/middle America behavior In the 50's and 60's (and before).

 

[Tidewater]

it had nothing to do with Charlottesville but this thread is basically discussing racism and I didn't want to start a new thread

I think it deserves its own thread, but that is an editorial decision.

and your response previous to this one makes no sense to me. I was making a point about how racism is still very prevalent today, because it is

I understand that. i would add two caveats.
1. Racism is not a question of "everybody in the US is racist or nobody is." Life is just a little more complicated than that.
2. I believe that if you were to poll Americans nationwide and ask some indicative questions (below), and compare today's responses to those from 1965, I think you'd feel a lot better about the degree and prevalence of racism. Questions like,
"Do you agree or disagree: Black people in general are inferior to whites."
"Agree or disagree: I am okay with my daughter marrying a black man if he is a good man, financially responsible, and treats my daughter well."
"Agree or disagree: Black people are just lazier than whites."
I think you'd see an enormous difference in the responses from 1965 and today.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I believe the differences in opinions of 1965 and today on such questions would indicate that the people of the United States are a lot more enlightened on the subject of race than they were fifty-five years ago. And not just in the South.
My views, however, are influenced by the fact that I live in a small town in Virginia where integration was accomplished without rioting, or even fanfare. The city just moved the students from the black segregated high school into the white high school and converted the former black high school into an elementary school and moved in the children who lived closest that school without regard to race. My wife attended that elementary school.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

it had nothing to do with Charlottesville but this thread is basically discussing racism and I didn't want to start a new thread

I think it deserves its own thread, but that is an editorial decision.

I understand that. i would add two caveats.
1. Racism is not a question of "everybody in the US is racist or nobody is." Life is just a little more complicated than that.
2. I believe that if you were to poll Americans nationwide and ask some indicative questions (below), and compare today's responses to those from 1965, I think you'd feel a lot better about the degree and prevalence of racism. Questions like,
"Do you agree or disagree: Black people in general are inferior to whites."
"Agree or disagree: I am okay with my daughter marrying a black man if he is a good man, financially responsible, and treats my daughter well."
"Agree or disagree: Black people are just lazier than whites."
I think you'd see an enormous difference in the responses from 1965 and today.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I believe the differences in opinions of 1965 and today on such questions would indicate that the people of the United States are a lot more enlightened on the subject of race than they were fifty-five years ago. And not just in the South.
My views, however, are influenced by the fact that I live in a small town in Virginia where integration was accomplished without rioting, or even fanfare. The city just moved the students from the black segregated high school into the white high school and converted the former black high school into an elementary school and moved in the children who lived closest that school without regard to race. My wife attended that elementary school.

Here, it was much the same. The community realized that segregation threatened the viability of the, even then, substantial Federal establishment here. It was accomplished without fanfare, in part because of city leadership. One of those leaders was a former Nazi, von Braun...

 

[Jon]

And my point remains that it's not as bad as it was, by any means. I've seen a lot more years of life in this country than you have...

still don't get it as I don't recall arguing differently

of course it is better now than it had been in the past. My point and the article I posted along with it was that racism is alive and well. I'd even argue that the dog whistles and language coming from 1 side of the political spectrum has caused a bit of an uptick recently. In fact the subject of the article I posted had been mostly out of the US since 2013 and then a bit surprised to be held at gunpoint in front of his own home simply for being black.

 

[Jon]

it had nothing to do with Charlottesville but this thread is basically discussing racism and I didn't want to start a new thread

I think it deserves its own thread, but that is an editorial decision.

I understand that. i would add two caveats.
1. Racism is not a question of "everybody in the US is racist or nobody is." Life is just a little more complicated than that.
2. I believe that if you were to poll Americans nationwide and ask some indicative questions (below), and compare today's responses to those from 1965, I think you'd feel a lot better about the degree and prevalence of racism. Questions like,
"Do you agree or disagree: Black people in general are inferior to whites."
"Agree or disagree: I am okay with my daughter marrying a black man if he is a good man, financially responsible, and treats my daughter well."
"Agree or disagree: Black people are just lazier than whites."
I think you'd see an enormous difference in the responses from 1965 and today.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I believe the differences in opinions of 1965 and today on such questions would indicate that the people of the United States are a lot more enlightened on the subject of race than they were fifty-five years ago. And not just in the South.
My views, however, are influenced by the fact that I live in a small town in Virginia where integration was accomplished without rioting, or even fanfare. The city just moved the students from the black segregated high school into the white high school and converted the former black high school into an elementary school and moved in the children who lived closest that school without regard to race. My wife attended that elementary school.

I don't disagree with any of this and again never argued otherwise

 

[TIDE-HSV]

still don't get it as I don't recall arguing differently

of course it is better now than it had been in the past. My point and the article I posted along with it was that racism is alive and well. I'd even argue that the dog whistles and language coming from 1 side of the political spectrum has caused a bit of an uptick recently. In fact the subject of the article I posted had been mostly out of the US since 2013 and then a bit surprised to be held at gunpoint in front of his own home simply for being black.

I'd have to agree with TW that your post about racism being alive and well did have sort of the flavor of "nothing's changed," when, in fact, it's very much changed for the better. I think it's so much a part of the human psyche, I don't think it'll ever be completely gone. Probably LEO, as vital as they are, will be the last bastion, because of the type personality it takes to want to walk around among civilians in a uniform, carrying a gun. The ones I've known well were very much "us against the world" personalities. I'll give another example, not as bad as that one, but illustrative. I have an elderly black client who's retired after a distinguished career as a businessman, who had both white and black customers. A few years ago, a neighbor, himself with a history of trouble with the law, lied to two policemen and told them he saw a fugitive they were pursuing duck into my client and his wife's backyard. They searched without warrant and, while their behavior was not like the case you linked, they weren't very respectful, either. My client and his wife were highly incensed. He said that they wouldn't have behaved that way with a white man and he was right. I managed to wangle a personal meeting and apology from the mayor, but my client wasn't satisfied. One cop was white and one was black. All we can do is to enforce the rules, including the one about not turning off dash and vest cams. All TW and I are saying is that, while racism is alive, and may always be, the situation is vastly improved over this country's history...

 

[Tidewater]

still don't get it as I don't recall arguing differently

of course it is better now than it had been in the past. My point and the article I posted along with it was that racism is alive and well. I'd even argue that the dog whistles and language coming from 1 side of the political spectrum has caused a bit of an uptick recently. In fact the subject of the article I posted had been mostly out of the US since 2013 and then a bit surprised to be held at gunpoint in front of his own home simply for being black.

I join you in being outraged when racism rears its ugly head.
We live in a post-Jussy Smollett world, so I'll reserve judgment until NJ investigates and comes to its own conclusions (supported by evidence).
If everything the subjects reported is true, this state trooper's time on the force should be over. You just cannot bring that level of race prejudice into a law enforcement environment.
I believe this type of attitude is unusual enough that it produces outrage and, where appropriate, termination. This was not the case not too long ago.

I find it interesting that the lovely Alabama undergraduate (now former undergrad) who was so proud of her ability to use the n-word was also from New Jersey.

 

[92tide]

meanwhile, in galveston.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1158568641312501760

https://twitter.com/StefaniaOnABC13/status/1158568641312501760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1158568641312501760&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theroot.com%2Fajax%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-1158568641312501760%26autosize%3D1

“First and foremost, I must apologize to Mister Neely for this unnecessary embarrassment,” Vernon L. Hale III, the city’s police chief, said in a statement posted on the department’s Facebook page on Monday night, the New York Times reports.

“Although this is a trained technique and best practice in some scenarios, I believe our officers showed poor judgment in this instance and could have waited for a transport unit at the location of arrest.”

 

[Tidewater]

meanwhile, in galveston.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1158568641312501760

https://twitter.com/StefaniaOnABC13/status/1158568641312501760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1158568641312501760&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theroot.com%2Fajax%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-1158568641312501760%26autosize%3D1

Well, we have this newfangled invention called the "automobile" and that might have been a better way to transport the accused.

 

[92tide]

Well, we have this newfangled invention called the "automobile" and that might have been a better way to transport the accused.

i can only imagine the dent on the chief's desk from his head slamming on it when he heard about this. "they did what?"

 

[crimsonaudio]

That Galveston story, while perhaps innocent (in that they may transport white people this way daily, having nothing to do with race), has really bad optics...

 

[Tidewater]

i can only imagine the dent on the chief's desk from his head slamming on it when he heard about this. "they did what?"

A new entry in our "What were they thinking?" contest.

 

[92tide]

That Galveston story, while perhaps innocent (in that they may transport white people this way daily, having nothing to do with race), has really bad optics...

i don't know why the sjw's were so up in arms about this, the galveston police were just recording a video for old town road for public outreach purposes.

 

[Its On A Slab]

Well, we have this newfangled invention called the "automobile" and that might have been a better way to transport the accused.

Hey, it's Old South week for the Kappa Alpha fraternity.

 

[Bazza]

Thought it might be of interest. SIAP (from Reuters - July 26)

California judges overturn death penalty for avowed white supremacist

“The Constitution...protects even deeply offensive and hateful beliefs,” Justice Leondra R. Kruger of the state supreme court said in the 76-page judgment, posted online by the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper.

Kruger, who wrote the decision for the court, said the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protecting free speech does not permit the prosecution to ask a jury to return a particular verdict because a defendant holds offensive beliefs.

The court ordered a new trial for Young, who was convicted of two first-degree murders and an attempted murder and a carjacking, to consider if he should go to the death chamber or have his sentence reduced to life without parole.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

No one should be given the death penalty. I don't care what beliefs you hold.

 

[Bazza]

No one should be given the death penalty. I don't care what beliefs you hold.

Generally I am against it but as with abortion. I believe there are circumstances worthy of exception.

I have to admit, I didn't shed any tears in 1989 when Ted Bundy was put down. 30 homicides admitted to....

Here are 16 of them......beautiful young people gone and their families changed forever.

 

[Bamaro]

Generally I am against it but as with abortion. I believe there are circumstances worthy of exception.

I have to admit, I didn't shed any tears in 1989 when Ted Bundy was put down. 30 homicides admitted to....

Here are 16 of them......beautiful young people gone and their families changed forever.

I don't particularly like the death penalty but, IMO, people like Bundy forfeit their life by committing heinous crimes when there is no doubt that they did it.